New trees listed
- Thread starter Eric Group
- Start date
Eric Group
Masterpiece
Also listed on FB, but on the Bonsai Auctions page, is this chunky Cork bark Elm! Another tree from Mr. @johng - this one has a hefty 1.5"++ trunk, stands around 18" tall from dirt to top of the tree and has a great overall shape and feel to it. The pot is a large mica bowl shaped pot with rivets...
Check them out- both are a great deal!!
Check them out- both are a great deal!!
jriddell88
Omono
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
That is true, but is it an actual Shimpaku? If not what is it? Curious for certain.
Grimmy
I hope this is a joke, and I'm just too slow to get it??
Why would you question whether it is shimpaku? I grew it from a cutting and know for sure it's 100% the same as the 150 other shimpaku in my garden??
What exactly makes you think otherwise?
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Not a joke but a question based on a conversation we had some time ago. You had mentioned that Itoigawa, Kishu, and Shimpaku junipers are commonly all called Shimpaku. My main interest is in actual Shimpaku and not an Itoigawa or Kishu.
Wake up on the wrong side of bed John?
Grimmy
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
I must have woke up on that wrong side of the bed...but not along side John.
Grimmy...you knew what you were asking. The rest of us...or a part of us may not.Probably!
I've had this strain of shimpaku for 20 years prior to ever even hearing the terms kishu and such....
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Understood and thank you for fielding the question without gun fire which you know by now does not bother or intimidate me the least
Do you mind if I ask Brian to look at it for me? I simply cannot ID it as is in the pictures and would hope you consider it a pre-sale question is all
Grimmy
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Understood but Itoigawa, Kishu, and Shimpaku junipers are not different terms but different plants from different areas. Those are not "terms" but a specific species with a rich long history and more important different growth habits. All three are, in their own ways far different.
I respect you and your years - I just want to know what it is Eric is selling for you. Why? I have purchased two dozen or so from him in the past and although they were and are great plants none were true Shimpaku. That is ok and I understand the "old" way of grouping them but I prefer to know with absolute certainty what I grow. Again, why? I am very familiar with all three and prefer to use Shimpaku for distribution and training here. No other reasons...
Grimmy
Eric Group
Masterpiece
All due respect but if you are so familiar with the difference why did you ask a couple posts back to have someone else look at it to identify it?
LOL
Eric Group
Masterpiece
If you want Brian's take:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nebari...ong-itoigawa-kishu-and-shimpaku-junipers/amp/
I cannot from any pics in his article or any I have ever seen or trees seen in person tell the difference between Kishu and Shimpaku, and have heard it explained numerous ways. Itoigawa is a noticeably different, this tree is not that.
My understanding from reading multiple articles on the subject is that Kishu and Itoigawa ARE Shimpaku, just as you said earlier, grown in different regions and producing different growth habits... with that in mind it is accurate to call this Shimpaku just as it would be accurate to call a Kishu Shimpaku or an Itoigawa Shimpaku... I am no plant historian or expert on a Japanese language and culture, but that is how I understand it. If you want to say this is a Shimpaku but delineate between Itoigawa and Kishu, the growth habit is clearly more like Kishu.
Hope that helps!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nebari...ong-itoigawa-kishu-and-shimpaku-junipers/amp/
I cannot from any pics in his article or any I have ever seen or trees seen in person tell the difference between Kishu and Shimpaku, and have heard it explained numerous ways. Itoigawa is a noticeably different, this tree is not that.
My understanding from reading multiple articles on the subject is that Kishu and Itoigawa ARE Shimpaku, just as you said earlier, grown in different regions and producing different growth habits... with that in mind it is accurate to call this Shimpaku just as it would be accurate to call a Kishu Shimpaku or an Itoigawa Shimpaku... I am no plant historian or expert on a Japanese language and culture, but that is how I understand it. If you want to say this is a Shimpaku but delineate between Itoigawa and Kishu, the growth habit is clearly more like Kishu.
Hope that helps!
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Eric Group
Masterpiece
http://dragonflyfarmsnursery.com/plants/juniperus-chinensis-shimpaku-kishu
This page describes it as I put it above: "Varieties Itoigawa and Kishu are two natural strains of shimpaku", and without spending the time to list a dozen more references that say the same thing, let's just say I have seen it described that way numerous times and when confronted with images of Shimpaku foliage next to Kishu foliage and they look identical... I tend to agree with that explanation. Clearly- as with most things we get and try to learn from Japan in America, there is a lot of confusion, but Kishu IS Shimpaku, Itoigawa IS Shimpaku.
This page describes it as I put it above: "Varieties Itoigawa and Kishu are two natural strains of shimpaku", and without spending the time to list a dozen more references that say the same thing, let's just say I have seen it described that way numerous times and when confronted with images of Shimpaku foliage next to Kishu foliage and they look identical... I tend to agree with that explanation. Clearly- as with most things we get and try to learn from Japan in America, there is a lot of confusion, but Kishu IS Shimpaku, Itoigawa IS Shimpaku.
Eric Group
Masterpiece
One more point to this- the Kishu and Shimpaku Brian talks about in his article even he describes how the Shimpaku "balls up like a Kishu, but that is how Brent labeled it" so he is rolling with that.. IOW, even Evergreen Gardenworks and the expert Grimmy wanted to ask for verification cannot clearly tell the difference between Kishu and Shimpaku, look at the images 
Quick, without going and reading his article- which is which? Anyone???
Then let's dig a little deeper and go to the source of his material:
There is a verbal description there, and. Price what the straibs are called: "Kishu SHIMPAKU" and "Itoigawa SHIMPAKU"... Hmmm. Noticing a trend yet? I don't mean to beat a dead horse but to take it even one step further- let's notice that Brent has only chosen to post pics of two- and Itoigawa and the one he is calling the classic Shimpaku, no pics to show the difference between Kishu and Shimpaku? Odd? Again, I am no expert on the subject of identifying them but it is not for lack of trying... and after reading all the available information I can find I will repeat- Kishu and Itoigawa ARE SHIMPAKU, so the listing is correct. Further I have yet to see any description of how Kishu actually differs from "classic Shimpaku" that makes identifying one over the other possible. I would certainly love it if someone could post pics with noticeable variations between the two and some identifiable data on how to tell with certainty... until such time I will continue to list all the Shimpaku I sell as simply SHIMPAKU, and I feel I have sufficiently reinforced my reasons for doing so.
That said- with such a minute difference between Shimpaku or Kishu- if one even exists which again I have yet to see evidence of- WHY DOES IT MATTER? That should have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you want to buy this tree! If you want one that has a nice little trunk, has the branches set and it read to be refined to something better, this is a good price for one... if you weren't really interested and just wanted to stir something up? Mission accomplished... thanks for putting more eyes on it for us!
Quick, without going and reading his article- which is which? Anyone???Then let's dig a little deeper and go to the source of his material:
There is a verbal description there, and. Price what the straibs are called: "Kishu SHIMPAKU" and "Itoigawa SHIMPAKU"... Hmmm. Noticing a trend yet? I don't mean to beat a dead horse but to take it even one step further- let's notice that Brent has only chosen to post pics of two- and Itoigawa and the one he is calling the classic Shimpaku, no pics to show the difference between Kishu and Shimpaku? Odd? Again, I am no expert on the subject of identifying them but it is not for lack of trying... and after reading all the available information I can find I will repeat- Kishu and Itoigawa ARE SHIMPAKU, so the listing is correct. Further I have yet to see any description of how Kishu actually differs from "classic Shimpaku" that makes identifying one over the other possible. I would certainly love it if someone could post pics with noticeable variations between the two and some identifiable data on how to tell with certainty... until such time I will continue to list all the Shimpaku I sell as simply SHIMPAKU, and I feel I have sufficiently reinforced my reasons for doing so.
That said- with such a minute difference between Shimpaku or Kishu- if one even exists which again I have yet to see evidence of- WHY DOES IT MATTER? That should have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you want to buy this tree! If you want one that has a nice little trunk, has the branches set and it read to be refined to something better, this is a good price for one... if you weren't really interested and just wanted to stir something up? Mission accomplished... thanks for putting more eyes on it for us!
Eric Group
Masterpiece
True, I help John and a few other friends sell trees online- they do not like to list them, haggle with people about prices (or what variety the tree is- can't imagine why, the public is such a joy to deal with on matters of money and barter) and they REALLY don't like to do the shipping... I do that part for them. We all win!
A picky point but to my understanding these are not different specific species....at least not in official taxonomic terms....only bonsai folks recognize a difference....and even then the only one that seems to be easily distinguishable is itoigawa.... Personally I think you are chasing unicorns but that's your business....
If all the shimpaku you have bought from Eric Do not meet your standard, I would advise you to pass on this one as well....the vast majority of the shimpaku coming from the Columbia area are from the same source. For me all this need to classify and categorize everything is a major flaw in human nature....
I really appreciate that Eric does this for me and BS like this exactly why I will never be in the bonsai business....I much prefer to play with the trees and leave all this nonsense to you eggspurts!
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
It is not nonsense John... It was a question, a pre-sale question. It was not unreasonable for me to expect a exact answer from you(eggspurt) or Eric(respected). There is sometimes difficulty distinguishing between Kishu and Shimpaku when/how they have been trimmed. They both are similar but one has a fuller mature foliage and darker. If you or Eric simply provided a picture of one similar in size untrimmed instead of this volley of BS my question would have been answered with the courtesy - not sporadic defense based on internet knowledge. Hell, a simple "I don't know, here is a better picture"...
Thanks anyways -
Grimmy
Every plant I bought from Eric was in excellent condition, good quality, and I was able to identify all when they showed mature foliage. I also have a single Itoigawa juniper he kindly sent me some time ago that is a joy to watch grow. I was not thrilled with them not being tagged/marked but it all worked out.
Not certain about why you would even bring that up John - I just had a simple question...
Grimmy
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
A long while back actually, it is where I got those tiny pots for Crystal some time ago and quite a few plants along the way
Grimmy
