Niwaki Help Questions

[mister_project]

I hope it's not bad form for me to ask a question about niwaki on this forum and apologize in advance if it is. I recently acquired a Kotobuki Japanese black pine that is about 4' tall, which I think puts it somewhere in the 5-10 year old range. I've attached a picture below. I've been wanting to try my hand at creating a niwaki style tree using a black pine for a while now. In retrospect, I'm not sure that the Kotobuki is the best specimen to try this on given its growth habits, but hindsight is 20/20. It was also all I could get my hands on and I'd like to give it a shot as an experiment if nothing else. I live in WA state in zone 8b. I got the tree on April 20th of this year and planted it immediately.

Given that the tree is a little bit more on the mature side I'd like to get to structural pruning and bending the branches into the correct form sooner rather than later before the branches develop too much. A lot of pruning will be required to thin the branches out. Youtube guides for pruning more common types of Japanese black pines indicate that if done at the correct time of the year, black pines can withstand significant structural pruning without issue. Summer was recommended as prime time oddly enough, but I've also seen the more typical autumn recommendations. I'm a bit nervous to cut huge amounts of the tree away right now considering I planted the tree only several weeks ago. When should I wait until to start significant pruning without fear of stressing the tree too much?

Second, when I am able to start structurally pruning the tree to form is there any recommended limit as to how much I should cut away in a single season? The guide I mentioned showed what I'd guess was at least 50%-70% removal of the tree's structure in one go. That seemed like a lot of stress to put on the tree to me, but perhaps I'm overthinking it. I wasn't sure if that was still okay for younger trees that were less established as well.

Thanks for any and all help!

 

[River's Edge]

I hope it's not bad form for me to ask a question about niwaki on this forum and apologize in advance if it is. I recently acquired a Kotobuki Japanese black pine that is about 4' tall, which I think puts it somewhere in the 5-10 year old range. I've attached a picture below. I've been wanting to try my hand at creating a niwaki style tree using a black pine for a while now. In retrospect, I'm not sure that the Kotobuki is the best specimen to try this on given its growth habits, but hindsight is 20/20. It was also all I could get my hands on and I'd like to give it a shot as an experiment if nothing else. I live in WA state in zone 8b. I got the tree on April 20th of this year and planted it immediately.

Given that the tree is a little bit more on the mature side I'd like to get to structural pruning and bending the branches into the correct form sooner rather than later before the branches develop too much. A lot of pruning will be required to thin the branches out. Youtube guides for pruning more common types of Japanese black pines indicate that if done at the correct time of the year, black pines can withstand significant structural pruning without issue. Summer was recommended as prime time oddly enough, but I've also seen the more typical autumn recommendations. I'm a bit nervous to cut huge amounts of the tree away right now considering I planted the tree only several weeks ago. When should I wait until to start significant pruning without fear of stressing the tree too much?

Second, when I am able to start structurally pruning the tree to form is there any recommended limit as to how much I should cut away in a single season? The guide I mentioned showed what I'd guess was at least 50%-70% removal of the tree's structure in one go. That seemed like a lot of stress to put on the tree to me, but perhaps I'm overthinking it. I wasn't sure if that was still okay for younger trees that were less established as well.

Thanks for any and all help!

View attachment 301223

Allow the tree this growing season to get settled in. Then in October, November you can prune unwanted branches. Seal any cuts larger than 1 inch would be my recommendation. Late winter, early spring March/April you can thin and wire the remaining branches to begin shaping!
This approach allows the tree to strengthen in place, begin to heal branch cuts and have most of the foliage throughout the winter after being transplanted. The most of the new stress is applied just before the next growing season to allow the most amount of time for recovery after foliage reduction and wiring. It also times the appropriate activities into generally acceptable time frames for your climate and the species. I hope for the trees sake you avoid the pom pom look
Best of Luck!

 

[mister_project]

Allow the tree this growing season to get settled in. Then in October, November you can prune unwanted branches. Seal any cuts larger than 1 inch would be my recommendation. Late winter, early spring March/April you can thin and wire the remaining branches to begin shaping!
This approach allows the tree to strengthen in place, begin to heal branch cuts and have most of the foliage throughout the winter after being transplanted. The most of the new stress is applied just before the next growing season to allow the most amount of time for recovery after foliage reduction and wiring. It also times the appropriate activities into generally acceptable time frames for your climate and the species. I hope for the trees sake you avoid the pom pom look
Best of Luck!

Thanks for that excellent information! There are a few branches already that are much more developed and would be obvious choices to keep after pruning. Is there any advantage or disadvantage to wiring those now to get a jump start on that aspect of the form? If I wait until this Oct/Nov to structurally prune like you suggest, can I just remove as much of the growth as desired or should I limit how much I remove?

Fear not, I don't intend to go for the pom-pom look. Although, I am relatively unskilled so up to this point so I just hope my execution ends up matching my vision for it.

Thanks again for your advice!

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks for that excellent information! There are a few branches already that are much more developed and would be obvious choices to keep after pruning. Is there any advantage or disadvantage to wiring those now to get a jump start on that aspect of the form? If I wait until this Oct/Nov to structurally prune like you suggest, can I just remove as much of the growth as desired or should I limit how much I remove?

Fear not, I don't intend to go for the pom-pom look. Although, I am relatively unskilled so up to this point so I just hope my execution ends up matching my vision for it.

Thanks again for your advice!

This is not a great time to wire pines when they are just waking up and the new growth is exploding, that is why I suggested waiting, as well as allowing the tree to settle in first! It is easy to separate the cambium when wiring in the spring and bending branches. We generally wire the branches that are most important for design!

The amount of foliage removed translates to how much you weaken the tree going in to the winter. That is why I suggested leaving more of that until late winter early spring!

As a general guideline I would suggest limiting pruning in the fall to 1/3 of the overall.
The more you remove, the longer it takes to recover and the longer it takes to realize your vision!

Experience can be a great teacher, much more powerful lessons than advice!
You have indicated that you are inexperienced, therefore I must assume that your technique and aftercare will be inexperienced also! My advice was geared to those assumptions.

 

[Maloghurst]

Hello and welcome, Kotobuki is a dwarf and slow growing pine and in my opinion it’s great tree where you planted it. I would also leave alone for awhile maybe even 2 years. It’s not going take off on you like a reg Japanese black pine would. I would learn to balance growth and direct energy throughout the tree to strengthen the lower half. Learn about ramification and candle cutting etc and prune to a full shape you like using those tools. Something like this picture. I Would not prune anything off this tree except for extremely weak growth or dead branches. The natural growth habits look good already. It just needs care and a some guidance.

 

[Jzack605]

Do not seal any cuts. Research has found this has no effect to potentially damaging effects when making pruning cuts. There may be some exceptions in bonsai but that does not translate to landscape plants. The science is pretty settled on this. Research how to make a proper pruning cut and allow the tree to compartmentalize on its own.

 

[River's Edge]

Do not seal any cuts. Research has found this has no effect to potentially damaging effects when making pruning cuts. There may be some exceptions in bonsai but that does not translate to landscape plants. The science is pretty settled on this. Research how to make a proper pruning cut and allow the tree to compartmentalize on its own.

Perhaps you should try both ways and decide for yourself!

 

[Jzack605]

I’ve done enough research into it to trust the science behind trees naturally compartmentalizing as they should and the lack of effectiveness that cut paste has.

plus I think it’s uglier than a proper pruning cut.

 

[mister_project]

Thank you all for the awesome input. I will leave it be for some time and let it get acclimated. I think I have a much better understanding on the direction I need to go and how to get there. Your advice is all very much appreciated, so thank you for helping teach a newbie like myself!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I agree with @River's Edge, Frank is leading you correctly. I would do nothing until autumn. Let the new roots develop and lignify. The tree needs to be well anchored into your garden before beginning work.

As to sealing wounds, I do seal wounds, especially large wounds. I do not use "tree tar" I use bonsai cut paste. My experience with bonsai suggests that the advise to not use any wound treatment may be fine for landscape and forestry purposes, it is not beneficial in bonsai applications. Bonsai is not the same as Landscaping. Niwaki is closer to Bonsai than it is to Landscape and Forestry tree management.