Nursery nana advice

[Japonicus]

That I can do. Full sun for this guy?

Far as I can tell. If it's been getting less than that but some, indeed. Throw it to the energy. You've worked arms and feet both, forget wiring.
Oh, you worked the roots twice and the foliage twice in 2018??? June and August out of pot in 2 different posts.
I've got one out of a pot right now I have to finish...

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

I slip potted it back in March 2018, then in August I repotted it in better soil. I don't believe I messed with it both June and August, but anything is possible. I do make beer for a living.

Okay, I'll wait on wiring. I did buy him to learn on, so I'm learning.

 

[Japonicus]

I slip potted it back in March 2018, then in August I repotted it in better soil. I don't believe I messed with it both June and August, but anything is possible. I do make beer for a living.

Okay, I'll wait on wiring. I did buy him to learn on, so I'm learning.

Yup my bad I was going by the date of the 1st post not the 1st sentence, sorry.
Still, slip potting is considered a potting, and the juniper was overworked throughout 2018.
It is best, not to work both above and below ground in a given years time frame, particularly
whilst learning on a new species of conifers.

While we were chatting...I left one out of a 3 gallon can probably 30 minutes.
It's been in my sunroom a couple of days drying out avoiding the rains so I could pot it up.
Anyway, here it was July 8, 2019 (the one on the right Gold Lace)

May 11, 2019 Look at those runners!!! This thing is geared up for whatever you want to throw at it
(in reason) observing 1 insult/yr though

July 8, 2019 a drastic cut back ensued. I do it either way, top side or bottom side one or the other.
Another gold tip I potted 1st both responding well.

Fast forward 9 months to this evening...

It's over potted in a 12" mica pot, most of the nursery soil is gone, so next go at the roots will be easy peasy
Sorry to photo bomb your thread, but examples of where the project should be, seemed better than 2000 words
and happened to be something I was in the middle of working on this evening anyway.
When you wait a year for recovery it is to assess whether to go forwards with plans or go to the next project
and set this one out this year.

 

[Japonicus]

So to expand on my last post or explain why the photos...
the 1st 3 pics are key and in succession as posted.

Super strong/insult/excellent rebound Toggle through those 3 thumbnails.
Hopefully next year I will thin and do some minor branch selection/removal and a little wire, nothing crazy.
Then the year following year more thinning more wire.
Then the year following that, probably pot down a size or 2 nearly bare rooting it.

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

Sorry to photo bomb your thread

No please, photobomb my thread! I love seeing examples and other peoples' work.

I had left the tree untouched for the remainder of 2018 and all of 2019 because I figured it needed to recover from my 2018 potting shenanigans, which is why I was thinking I'd wire it in the spring (now that it's not 35 degrees at night here in NJ) and maybe repot in the late summer or next year.

I'm wondering if the tree is upset because I didn't protect it for the winter. It was a pretty mild one, but he was just hanging out in the cold. This winter I'm planning to bring my junipers into my unheated garage. At least protected from the worst of the cold and wind.

 

[Japonicus]

and maybe repot in the late summer or next year.

Next year at best, and may be pushing it, just reassess then. I doubt the cold was major, but being in recovery perhaps.
It should recover, but that one side is hanging in the balance, and hopefully pulls through. We're pullin for ya

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

I'm really glad I posted. Thanks for the advice!

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

Still not looking super great. Poor little fella. Do I just ride it out and hope he makes it through the winter? I know @sorce likes to repot in summer, but I don't think that applies for a sickly tree.

I have more trouble with evergreens than anything else. I'm like a juniper serial killer.

 

[sorce]

You're right to hesitate to Repot. It may be needed though, you have to assess! What are the roots and soil like? Pop it out?

I swear I let my Nana's dry out, so I feel like you gotta water more.

I feel like needle folaige transpires way faster than scale. And my Junipers and Elms have been needing water more than other things all year.

Sorce

 

[Japonicus]

I have more trouble with evergreens than anything else. I'm like a juniper serial killer.

LOL that’s funny I mean the way you put it, not that you have had issues with them.
I suck at deciduous trees in pots...

No idea why the pictures look so distorted. I can make out the brown patches though,
but can’t make out much else. Go ahead and check for mites, again if you have already.
Just take a white envelope from the mail and hold it under multiple branches while you
tap the top side of a branch. If any of the small debris is alive, assume you have and treat
for mites. I just had to get aggressive with a spruce that had a bad infestation.
I also treated all my conifers as a couple junipers had a little activity on the white paper.

I strongly recommend you get a couple more of these, and follow examples provided of Spring potting
late April early May. Ones that I have potted up in late August early Sept were healed into the ground and mulched.
One thing on plastic nursery pots...if you handle them by one edge of the lip or rim and flex the roots
then every time you handle or move the subject that way, you’re messing with the roots involved
and those are the newest feeder roots there

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Junipers in general do not react well to messing with their roots. Slip potting counts as much damage as a full repot. So never waste the opportunity to correct problems by slip potting. Always do a careful full repot, or simply do not repot if you are not prepared to do a "real" repotting.

I try not to repot my junipers more than once every 3 years. If the juniper looks healthy, there is no reason to even repot that often. I have a shimpaku that has not been repotted for 10 years. It is in an inorganic mix, mix still drains, the tree is healthy, no need to repot.

Do not repot a weak tree. Repotting a weak tree will send it into a spiraling cycle of slow decline that will eventually lead to death.

Your mix looks good, as long as you do not have drainage issues, there is no reason to disturb the roots.

All junipers love full sun, sunrise to sunset. If this juniper has not been in full sun, do move it to full sun. If it is up against a building or fence that shades it for part of the day, Try moving it more toward an open position.

I don't like the color of the foliage. How often do you water? Need to check daily, but water when it actually needs it. It could be too wet? or it could have gotten too dry between watering? I can't tell from the photos.

Take a good close look, the photos do not show any pests, but the color change indicates something wrong. Take a good look for mites. Spider mites, flat mites, 2 spotted mites, all suck the life out of a tree, and they are so tiny my eyes can't really see them, I recognize their webs and the damage they do to foliage. Remember, mites are not insects, they are arachnids, spiders, so insecticides do not work on them. You need to use a spray specifically labelled for mites, an arachnicide. (they have a different chemistry in their nervous system, most insecticides attack insect's nerve systems, spiders are largely immune).

So more sun, either more or less frequent water (you need to figure this out). and a close check for bugs.

Leave it alone until next year at least, no repotting or heavy pruning until after you have vigorous green, vibrant colored foliage in abundance. Not just green tips to branches. The sickly yellowish hue needs to be gone from the whole bush. I would be content with not repotting for another 2 years or more. Junipers do not want frequent repotting. Next repot should be to move it to a bonsai pot. Do all your styling while in this pot.

At least the above is what I would do. There are many different approaches to junipers. I've kept my junipers growing for decades now. So my approach does work, horticulturally. There are others that are more aggressive. You can get away with being more aggressive, but you can have a higher mortality rate that goes with being more aggressive.

 

[Oerc201]

How bad is it to repot now or before winter. I know the best time is spring. But if there is a tree potbound enough that water has a hard time getting through and i repot it now? Will it die? Do i leave it like that until spring?

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

spiraling cycle of slow decline that will eventually lead to death.

You've just described every juniper I've ever owned. Poor little guys.

Thanks for the detailed reply, @Leo in N E Illinois . I took a few more pictures for you. To reply to your questions:

Drainage does not seem like an issue, as I get water running out the bottom after a brief watering.

I don't like the color either. If it hasn't rained, I check it every day, and usually water every day, unless the soil looks wet. It could have gotten dry between waterings earlier in the year, but nothing sticks out in my head like I forgot to water it for a while or anything like that.

Yes, it gets full sun all day. I can try moving it further out into the yard, but I don't think there's much more sun to be had.

I didn't see any bugs, but I'll have to take another good look in the daylight.

Also thanks to @Japonicus and everyone else who weighed in. I haven't touched the pot since I took it out of the garage for winter, other than to take the pictures in this thread. If I pop it out of the pot to look at the roots as @sorce suggested, is that as stressful as a repot?

 

[Japonicus]

I don't think there's much more sun to be had.

Perhaps the plastic is scorching the roots. Those nursery cans can be very rude IMHO in full Sun.

Rather than slip potting I would remove the can and heal the roots untouched into the ground and
pot up in late April early May. One other option to consider, is to buy a deep ceramic pot at big box store
but not a lot bigger around than the can, and place the can into the pot. That will shade the can somewhat
and keep it from blowing over too. I was doing this with a crabapple till today when a JBP in a nursery can
took a dive off of a bucket inverted in a chair on the porch and came out of the can entirely some time earlier in the day.
Now that ceramic pot is a new home to a Summer slip potting of a BP, and the crabapple will dry out too quick if kept in same location.

 

[sorce]

It looks better, like the new tips are growing well.

That's a good sign.

You can knock off all the brown to help with lighting the interior.

is that as stressful as a

It depends how long it's been in there.

I've had some that were freshly uppotted and the new soil just falls off, which actually, isn't that bad cuz the core from the old pot is still intact.
When they been on there long enough to grab all the soil, this isn't too stressful either.
It's the in-between, when the roots have begun to grow into the new soil, yet not enough to hold the soil intact that most damage is done to fresh root tips.

Looking at this again...you probably could Repot it.

@Oerc201 I don't think Spring is the best time to Repot.

Sorce

 

[Oerc201]

It looks better, like the new tips are growing well.

That's a good sign.

You can knock off all the brown to help with lighting the interior.



It depends how long it's been in there.

I've had some that were freshly uppotted and the new soil just falls off, which actually, isn't that bad cuz the core from the old pot is still intact.
When they been on there long enough to grab all the soil, this isn't too stressful either.
It's the in-between, when the roots have begun to grow into the new soil, yet not enough to hold the soil intact that most damage is done to fresh root tips.

Looking at this again...you probably could Repot it.

@Oerc201 I don't think Spring is the best time to Repot.

Sorce

Thank you Sorce

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

Thank you again. Just as a data point, here are a few pictures of a smaller juniper on the bench right next to this one.

I've had them for roughly the same amount of time. I had wanted to repot the smaller one, but missed spring (turns out pandemic + owning and operating a brewery takes up a lot of time).

It started looking kind of sad, so I tried a page from Peter Chan's book, who has said that he pots sick trees in straight sphagnum moss.

I slip potted it into pure sphagnum around May, and it seems to be thriving.

Which would indicate to me that at least they're getting enough sun where there are.

You can also see the sad remains of one of their brethren on the right. That was a mallsai someone got me for Christmas 2018. It was doing well, overwintered with no problems, started growing then declined very rapidly in the spring.

 

[doctorater]

Leo in N E Illinois, you said...

Junipers in general do not react well to messing with their roots. Slip potting counts as much damage as a full repot...

.. All junipers love full sun, sunrise to sunset. If this juniper has not been in full sun, do move it to full sun...

I have a recently purchased nana and a San Jose, both of which share the slightly puny look of ManSkirtBrew's nana. About a week ago both received a light root pruning, essentially cutting away thick, girdling roots around the side and bottom of the pot, and were then backfilled with bonsai soil. I have kept them sheltered from hot afternoon sun since doing this. Neither has started pushing new growth nor has the pale color improved as yet. Do you think they might be better off in full sun?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I'm in the relatively mild summer climate of the northern mid-west. I'm near Lake Michigan, in Illinois and near lake Michigan when on the farm in Michigan. I don't know how hot Idaho gets. You will have to use your judgement. In my climate - Yes, I would set these junipers in full sun. If I was in West Texas, no, full sun would be too hot. So, is your climate more like southwest Michigan or is it more like West Texas? You choose. If you have zero humidity and daily temperatures over 95 F, then keep the junipers in afternoon shade. If you have humidity above 50% and daytime temps only in the 80's or low 90's F. Then move the junipers to the sun.

You choose, I can not tell you. I don't know your climate.

 

[doctorater]

I'm in the relatively mild summer climate of the northern mid-west. I'm near Lake Michigan, in Illinois and near lake Michigan when on the farm in Michigan. I don't know how hot Idaho gets. You will have to use your judgement. In my climate - Yes, I would set these junipers in full sun. If I was in West Texas, no, full sun would be too hot. So, is your climate more like southwest Michigan or is it more like West Texas? You choose. If you have zero humidity and daily temperatures over 95 F, then keep the junipers in afternoon shade. If you have humidity above 50% and daytime temps only in the 80's or low 90's F. Then move the junipers to the sun.

You choose, I can not tell you. I don't know your climate.

That's actually a very helpful answer, thanks.