Photos of gutted out gazebo...ideas?

[GrimLore]

Then tell him to remove "will tolerate freezing" from the plant description(I don't care how nice he was, he is not to bright) Also, you have to understand the plants will tolerate SLOWLY freezing and SLOW defrosting all Winter as it is natural. That setup will work if simply insulated as a low R value will soften the cold snaps enough to let things happen SLOWLY inside.

Grimmy

 

[coh]

Honestly...my heads spinning. Zone friendly plants should do fine in an enclosed area without wind damage. When it comes to cold I assumed. But...he gave up a sale so...figured he must have some concerns. I explained good double hung windows...and the room would be insulated. But...being raised off the ground was his biggest concern I think with temps possibly going colder than normal. This was to be fun...it's so confusing.

Make sure you're not confusing zone hardy in the ground (which is what is usually quoted) versus zone hardy in a pot...where the roots are exposed to the ambient air temperature. Plants in the ground have all that soil and often snow cover in winter to buffer temperature changes, so what will survive in the ground will not necessarily survive in a pot, even with wind protection.

Nevertheless, I can tell you that I had to leave a few larger potted Japanese maples out in my barn with no extra heat this winter. They were exposed to temperatures as low as about 10 F and came through fine (which somewhat surprised me).

Edit to add (after skimming through the rest of the thread) - if this was my project, I'd build (insulate, etc) what I thought was best and then carefully monitor the temperatures in the space through the winter and early spring...with no trees inside. I'd actually be more concerned with it getting too warm on those sunny days in late winter, especially since it looks to be directly attached to the house (and there's a door, right). But you'll only find out by monitoring those temperatures. You can get remote reading min/max thermometers that will tell you all you need to know without having to go out there.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Then tell him to remove "will tolerate freezing" from the plant description(I don't care how nice he was, he is not to bright) Also, you have to understand the plants will tolerate SLOWLY freezing and SLOW defrosting all Winter as it is natural. That setup will work if simply insulated as a low R value will soften the cold snaps enough to let things happen SLOWLY inside.

Grimmy

Thanks Grimmy...I will keep repeating your words come winter. I am not as "forth right" with my being so wet behind the ears in this wintering and such. But...I did admire many of bonsai. I felt reasonable priced as well. Come spring...I may look again at his materials. They had one sweet tree...but, I knew I couldn't winter it well...my sunroom being to warm. And...I won't risk another bonsai to experiment with...as my rosemary will be come winter down in the basement on the window sill.

But so my style...very nice tree.
http://www.bonsaitrees.com/detail.php?id=1630&catid=1

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

That is a beautiful space, if it were mine I would insulate it and make provisions to heat it so that in winter it would always be above freezing. Also make provisions for cooling so that you can use it all summer, or cool it on warm winter days. Exhaust fan and intake vent low down for cooling. I also would not try to block out light, maybe shears but that is about it. If you keep it between 25 and 40 F you can use it for winter storage of hardy trees. If you have light coming in, if an Eurasian species wakes up early on you - you can simply move it to a window. I would make it primarily a nice work space, relegate storage of chemicals and 'ugly stuff' to a shed outdoors or the garage, make this space a living space. On the shelves display pots you don't have trees for yet. Your work bench ideas sound good.

Grimmy, I disagree, I was taught that it is primarily temperature, not light that determines whether a plant stays dormant or not. I don't know where you got your information on that. Perhaps I'm out of date, but without seeing a good university type peer reviewed study I would stick to my assertion that temperature is the key driver. Not trying to pick a fight, I could just be out of date, though I don't think so. But most everything else you said is true - in that rapid freeze thaw cycling is what causes the most damage to trees. Direct winter sun on a tree in a pot with frozen soil, unable to move moisture around and up to thawing twigs is a sure way to cause winter kill, you have this right. But the presence or absence of light is not the key driver to govern dormancy, temperature is (I suppose it will be possible to find a few exceptions, but I wager very few).

But if it were mine, I would gear the space more for the storage of sub-tropicals, and make it a comfortable work space. I would keep it heated to maybe 40 or 50 F at night, kick it up to 60's in the day and use it as a year round work space. You could then enjoy trees like Citrus and Camelia and all manner of sub-tropicals and some tropicals in comfort. I winter most of my natives on the ground under their benches just covered with a tarp. They can take the cold, so don't need a special structure. This space is too nice to be tasked to just storing trees that could be on or in the ground for winter.

Those are my 2 cents. But what ever you decide to do I'm sure it will look nice.

 

[coh]

Grimmy, I disagree, I was taught that it is primarily temperature, not light that determines whether a plant stays dormant or not. I don't know where you got your information on that. Perhaps I'm out of date, but without seeing a good university type peer reviewed study I would stick to my assertion that temperature is the key driver. Not trying to pick a fight, I could just be out of date, though I don't think so. But most everything else you said is true - in that rapid freeze thaw cycling is what causes the most damage to trees. Direct winter sun on a tree in a pot with frozen soil, unable to move moisture around and up to thawing twigs is a sure way to cause winter kill, you have this right. But the presence or absence of light is not the key driver to govern dormancy, temperature is (I suppose it will be possible to find a few exceptions, but I wager very few).

I remember this discussion from earlier in the year, and also find it surprising that the trees would start to push growth while the pots were still embedded in snow. The only thing I can think of is that the snow was insulating the pots so well that residual ground heat kept the soil mass just above freezing...which might allow the buds to start growing if they received enough warmth/sunlight.

The question is, during that time, what were the air temperatures like? Was it well above freezing during the sunny period?

 

[Cadillactaste]

That is a beautiful space, if it were mine I would insulate it and make provisions to heat it so that in winter it would always be above freezing. Also make provisions for cooling so that you can use it all summer, or cool it on warm winter days. Exhaust fan and intake vent low down for cooling. I also would not try to block out light, maybe shears but that is about it. If you keep it between 25 and 40 F you can use it for winter storage of hardy trees. If you have light coming in, if an Eurasian species wakes up early on you - you can simply move it to a window. I would make it primarily a nice work space, relegate storage of chemicals and 'ugly stuff' to a shed outdoors or the garage, make this space a living space. On the shelves display pots you don't have trees for yet. Your work bench ideas sound good.



But if it were mine, I would gear the space more for the storage of sub-tropicals, and make it a comfortable work space. I would keep it heated to maybe 40 or 50 F at night, kick it up to 60's in the day and use it as a year round work space. You could then enjoy trees like Citrus and Camelia and all manner of sub-tropicals and some tropicals in comfort. I winter most of my natives on the ground under their benches just covered with a tarp. They can take the cold, so don't need a special structure. This space is too nice to be tasked to just storing trees that could be on or in the ground for winter.

Those are my 2 cents. But what ever you decide to do I'm sure it will look nice.

Thanks for the kind words on the area...so much space and a blank slate. I have so many ideas...that I don't know what to scratch and what to keep. My husband being a general contractor...I showed him all my ideas tonight. And he said...to turn it over to him. He has the "just" of what I want. Does this for a living...to trust him. I think I just might...for I am an indecisive person. I am better with decorating than construction of an area. So I showed him benches I liked...and so on.


It's all so confusing to me. But, I honestly feel it would be easier to winter native dormant trees than to attempt to fight old man winter. We live lake front, in a microclimate. Temps are 10 degrees cooler most of the times. As well as all my plants bloom later than ones a few miles down the road.

My neighbor sold her green house because we have harsh winters...there are times when we are without electric for several days at a time. We all have generators. Only part of our house works on that generator. Kitchen...office (for business purposes) freezer and the snake cage. Along with main house and bathroom areas. The gazebo isn't on the breaker...nor do I think it's large enough (generator)to run electric in there to keep a heater. I had thought if temperate plants...she talked me out of it. By saying...what is your back up plan? You when the power goes out for a few days? Then add last winters harsh -20's...we lost trees in the yard.

I have one temperate tree I am going to attempt to keep in the windowsill of the basement. But...do worry it's ill equipped to make it happy. But...to not try...and had someone else buy it would have always made me sick. It was the one reason I had contemplated heating it to temperate bonsai. But,even warm weather...we can lose our power for days.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I remember this discussion from earlier in the year, and also find it surprising that the trees would start to push growth while the pots were still embedded in snow. The only thing I can think of is that the snow was insulating the pots so well that residual ground heat kept the soil mass just above freezing...which might allow the buds to start growing if they received enough warmth/sunlight.

The question is, during that time, what were the air temperatures like? Was it well above freezing during the sunny period?

It's all puzzling to me...in pot verses in ground...all sort of factors. Winter was not typical for most.

 

[Vin]

You're definitely living in the boonies!

 

[Cadillactaste]

You're definitely living in the boonies!

You could definitely stat that about where I live and be 100% correct! Though,I wouldn't change it for the world. No cell phone service...limited broadband that is costly (though we still have areas that can't even get dial up Internet) ...almost an hour drive to buy a birthday gift. (Why I shop online a lot) But serenity at it's best. PRICELESS!

 

[Cadillactaste]

So we were discussing the flooring...the granular texture of the rubber floor. How it's a new product. Not sure how well it will hold up. I wasn't entirely sure on it's color. And...the fact that I didn't want tile period. That I wanted the tops of the benches distressed and stained. With the framing painted. That...my husband suggested porch tongue and groove planking. He plans on torching it to give a distressed look. Then staining it. He picks it up today. Weekend plans are to work on the gazebo. Excited to see this project on it's way.

 

[Cadillactaste]

The husband wants to use cedar for the shelving...and pergola going in the gazebo. (With the height of the gazebo he thinks it will add character) I know absolutely nothing about cedar. I suppose he knows what he's talking about.

 

[GrimLore]

The husband wants to use cedar for the shelving...and pergola going in the gazebo. (With the height of the gazebo he thinks it will add character) I know absolutely nothing about cedar. I suppose he knows what he's talking about.

Cedar is the number one choice for any application of that type - good stuff

Grimmy

 

[Vin]

The husband wants to use cedar for the shelving...and pergola going in the gazebo. (With the height of the gazebo he thinks it will add character) I know absolutely nothing about cedar. I suppose he knows what he's talking about.

Cedar is a great choice. However, keep in mind (and your husband probably knows this) it will gray quite a bit if you don't seal and clear it. Depending on the application some people prefer the graying and some don't. Just thought I'd let you know just in case.

 

[GrimLore]

Cedar is a great choice. However, keep in mind (and your husband probably knows this) it will gray quite a bit if you don't seal and clear it. Depending on the application some people prefer the graying and some don't. Just thought I'd let you know just in case.

This stuff works great and soaks in fast http://www.woodrich-brand.com/Wood_Stain_Sample_Color_s/24.htm. The colors look deeper then the screen sampler.

Grimmy

 

[Cadillactaste]

Cedar is a great choice. However, keep in mind (and your husband probably knows this) it will gray quite a bit if you don't seal and clear it. Depending on the application some people prefer the graying and some don't. Just thought I'd let you know just in case.

When I told him...he laughed and said..."Yes, dear...I know." But thanks for the heads up. I didn't know this.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Chugging right along. Still waiting on the electric baseboard to arrive...they found one that has a thermostat for low temps actually I guess! We took time off the gazebo to get our much needed repurposed light post up. Now...working on finishing burning the walls...so they can get a dry rubbing of stain on them like the floor has. Then...the pergola is to be finished next. Which...I am still leaning on the original idea of doing the dark brown posts and distressed wood top to match what we'll be doing with the shelves.

 

[bonsaiBlake]

looking really good. I'm jealous. Makes my little greenhouse look shamefull. . . (but then again I got 2 of them for under $75 and new)

 

[Cadillactaste]

looking really good. I'm jealous. Makes my little greenhouse look shamefull. . . (but then again I got 2 of them for under $75 and new)

Gotta love a bargain! If it serves it's purpose...then it's a win/win!

 

[Vin]

Chugging right along. Still waiting on the electric baseboard to arrive...they found one that has a thermostat for low temps actually I guess! We took time off the gazebo to get our much needed repurposed light post up. Now...working on finishing burning the walls...so they can get a dry rubbing of stain on them like the floor has. Then...the pergola is to be finished next. Which...I am still leaning on the original idea of doing the dark brown posts and distressed wood top to match what we'll be doing with the shelves.

Very nice! The Hubby is looking thrilled

 

[Cadillactaste]

Very time consuming Vin...he is happy with the finished look. Which keeps him chugging along.