Tidal Bonsai
Omono
Anyone willing to part with, or know where to get princess persimmon seedlings, or seedlings with a few years on them?
Princess Persimmon Anyone?
- Thread starter Tidal Bonsai
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namnhi
Masterpiece
You should contact Julian Adam. He is close enough to you to do drive there.
RobertB
Chumono
I am confused with these. If you grow from seed do you get a male / female plant? Or can they grow as female or male? If they grow from seed as female / male plant can you propogate from the female portion and create a female plant? I don't reallly know much about general horticulture.
namnhi
Masterpiece
Just like human being, you get male and female. You don't get both male and female on the same plant. You can graft female to a male tree so that tree can bear fruits. Cuttings from female will be female.
RobertB
Chumono
Ok, I had read on evergreengarden works website that these plants are polygamodioecious. Not exactly sure what that means but it sounds like you can have both male and female flowers on the same plant.
All I know is that you need a male plant to get your females to fruit. I am just curious how you even get the females.
So can I just purchase some seeds then separate them into males and female once they grow?
All I know is that you need a male plant to get your females to fruit. I am just curious how you even get the females.
So can I just purchase some seeds then separate them into males and female once they grow?
I bought a bunch of seedlings from FB auctions two years ago (I forget the seller). You can get some good deals on them there. They grow very slowly as an FYI. If you want the twisty shohin that you see in various pictures, get really young seedlings that you can wire to shape. A year later they become too rigid to wire.
Tidal Bonsai
Omono
From Julian Adams
"I have a number of unsexed three and four year Princess seedlings. All of the ones which have been sexed were sold last year. Unfortunately there is no way to know the sex of a plant except when it is in bloom. Blooming does not occur before the third year. I hope to get blooms on many of these this year so that it can be determined whether they are male (no fruit) or female (fruit). If you are interested in plants which have undetermined sex, let me know. If you need plants of determined sex, I should have those available in May if blooming happens on schedule."
Best,
Julian
what time of year is best to take Princess Persimmon tree?
Tidal Bonsai
Omono
From what Julian said above, now is the time to call because they know what sex they are.
i meant what time of the year is best to take princess persimmon cuttings or air layer?
who is Julian? do you have his contact?
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
You can take cuttings or air-layers from a sexed tree, and you will therefore know what sex the clones will be.
The "waiting three years to know what sex they are" is only for seedlings.
The "waiting three years to know what sex they are" is only for seedlings.
roberthu
Chumono
I just bought 5 seedlings from Brent hoping at least one of them will be female. Fingers crossed. If they do flower in 3 to 5 years, that's pretty quick already compare to many other plants.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
I started 25 seeds in April and every single one germinated. Best success I have ever had with seeds. They will be a mix of male and female. I am surprised that some could flower in three years. I had heard it was seven years.
roberthu
Chumono
That is an amazing success rate! Could you share some photos of the seedlings?
barrosinc
Masterpiece
And three years is an understatement
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
The first picture is a grouping of seedlings in 3 inch pots. These were started in peat pots, not my normal thing. The one pot that looks empty has a very small plant. The first leaves were trapped in the seed and broke off but much to my surprise it mad a new set of leaves.
The second group are in 5 inch pots and were started at the same time planted all together in one 6 inch pot after I used all the peat pots. They are significantly larger.
Also, Honey Locust gives me 100% germination.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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Flowering in 3 years is optimistic, possible if growth is rapid and optimal. If your horticulture is less than ideal, it may take many more years to get flowering. Horticulture is everything.
Most I have read suggests the male:female ratio is roughly 50:50. This means a group of 6 unsexed seedlings, randomly selected, has a 95% chance of having at least one of each sex. Obviously, they will all have a sex, but you will have a 95% chance of at least one being the opposite sex of the rest. If the ratio of male : female is other than 50 : 50 you will have to increase the size of the group to assure getting one of each.
Starting with 10 or 20 unsexed seedlings, or seeds, is the most reliable way to get one of each for all Diospyros species. Also good for bonsai is the Texas native persimmon, Diospyros texana. It is similar to princess persimmon in leaf size, and habit. The fruit ripens to jet black. Another that I have not seen live in person is the rare Diospyros californica, the Baja persimmon, which is a more xeric adapted persimmon. Pretty much universal through the genus Diospyros, is the trees will be separate sexes, bearing only male, or female flowers. This holds for the persimmons, and the ebony species.
Interesting factoid. For culinary persimmons, Diospyros kaki, they have been cultivated for several thousand years as a culinary crop. The normal state for all Diospyros is to require pollination to form fruit. If the flower does not get pollinated, there will be no fruit. During the centuries of selection, D. kaki cultivars were selected where the female plant will form fruit even if it was not pollinated. The unpollinated fruit will be seedless. These have become the modern seedless varieties of persimmon. This phenomena is known to occur with a small number of cultivars of American persimmon, D. virginiana, and Princess persimmon, D. rhombifolia. So if someone tells you they have a female princess persimmon that bears fruit, without a pollinator, they are not crazy, it can happen. For the American persimmon, I believe the cultivar 'Prok' has been described as producing seedless fruit without a pollinator. I have a few American persimmon, but none have reached flowering size, even though a few are over 4 feet tall.
Most I have read suggests the male:female ratio is roughly 50:50. This means a group of 6 unsexed seedlings, randomly selected, has a 95% chance of having at least one of each sex. Obviously, they will all have a sex, but you will have a 95% chance of at least one being the opposite sex of the rest. If the ratio of male : female is other than 50 : 50 you will have to increase the size of the group to assure getting one of each.
Starting with 10 or 20 unsexed seedlings, or seeds, is the most reliable way to get one of each for all Diospyros species. Also good for bonsai is the Texas native persimmon, Diospyros texana. It is similar to princess persimmon in leaf size, and habit. The fruit ripens to jet black. Another that I have not seen live in person is the rare Diospyros californica, the Baja persimmon, which is a more xeric adapted persimmon. Pretty much universal through the genus Diospyros, is the trees will be separate sexes, bearing only male, or female flowers. This holds for the persimmons, and the ebony species.
Interesting factoid. For culinary persimmons, Diospyros kaki, they have been cultivated for several thousand years as a culinary crop. The normal state for all Diospyros is to require pollination to form fruit. If the flower does not get pollinated, there will be no fruit. During the centuries of selection, D. kaki cultivars were selected where the female plant will form fruit even if it was not pollinated. The unpollinated fruit will be seedless. These have become the modern seedless varieties of persimmon. This phenomena is known to occur with a small number of cultivars of American persimmon, D. virginiana, and Princess persimmon, D. rhombifolia. So if someone tells you they have a female princess persimmon that bears fruit, without a pollinator, they are not crazy, it can happen. For the American persimmon, I believe the cultivar 'Prok' has been described as producing seedless fruit without a pollinator. I have a few American persimmon, but none have reached flowering size, even though a few are over 4 feet tall.
