repotting and rootpad development of old collected conifers

[wireme]

I guess it's not too crazy actually....
Well, it could get there....

I personally wouldn't put anything in a Bonsai pot until it had that perfect feeder ball.

The methods to get it there is where it becomes crazy.
Colanders, Boxes, the ground, mixes of all.....

I guess you could wire a rootless Juniper right into a Bonsai pot of good soil....since it will fit.

But the stuff with large roots should be appropriately containerized/grounded, until the time comes you CAN get it to sit right in a pot.

Anything else....while it may work...is not the fastest way to excellence.

There is no way to shave years off of a project.

Unless the project is full of shit that is adding years ONTO the project.

Then, eliminating those things shaves years off of a project.

That's why I appreciate Vance's article on "good enough".

Good enough in this game....
Well.....
You might as well just fight a Bull moose naked and unarmed!

We'll all die before "good enough" produces a good tree..

I guess we can bounce this back over to the "rules" thread, or one of its knockoffs.....

Cuz my opinion on a good tree is mine...
It is a MUST.
Perfect.

Short......

You already do a great job from what I see sitting here in Dav4's chair.

You changing anything will give you back about 6 months if anything, maybe a year.

And surely a little less bitching from Adair about "mounding".

I know you do a lot of packing and moving for winter....maybe a little overprotected for your arctic trees IMO...
That said....for you....I'd recommend bigger boxes....haha....BIGGER!

Oh...and a thing about this Yew I got....
My only collected conifer...
I got it in a concrete mixing tub.

At that size....it is quite possible to dig and remove big roots without even repotting.

Trouble I have is remembering where the hell the roots are!

I think documentation....pics....is key...notes...

And unconventional dirtbagisms, which you are a Pioneer of....we can keep the secret to ourselves that dirtbagisms actually can shave years off a project.
Applying em at the right time of course.
The wrong time can F us!

Just for stirring the brain.

Sorce

Have you seen this one before sorce?

http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.ca/2014/09/european-spruce-78.html?m=0

 

[sorce]

Have you seen this one before sorce?

http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.ca/2014/09/european-spruce-78.html?m=0

No...Damn!

Now I see what you are talking about!

@Walter Pall
Any updates on that monster?

Sorce

 

[0soyoung]

I did the papoose wrap once, tree recovered and strengthened but not much change in the rootball,

My point is just to get the tree recovered from the trauma of collection. Then with strength in the tree, remove the wrap and get on with the transition to a substrate and etc.

 

[wireme]

My point is just to get the tree recovered from the trauma of collection. Then with strength in the tree, remove the wrap and get on with the transition to a substrate and etc.

Understood. That may well be the best way for certain trees.

 

[wireme]

1. The burlap was all but disentegrated by year 2. 2 others I left for a third year, and I don't recall any burlap at all when I repotted them. I'm not sure if woven cotton sheets would break down that quickly, or allow very quick penetration of the new roots out into the aggregate. I think the burlap actually encourages that because the weave is so open.
2. You are correct, I collected out west 2 different years, and somewhere every year until 2014. This method has been, by far, the most successful.
3. Yes, the root balls were similar both years, we were in roughly the same area. Some were scraped off rocks, and others were dug out of powdery sandy soil. The burlap held the sandy soil together pretty well, but they definitely crumbled apart when we unwrapped them to pot them when we got home in 2010. I think that had a lot to do with the low success rate of the 2010 trip, where we lost about 1/3 of the 20 we collected; we should have left them in the burlap like I did in '13 and I bet they'd all be alive.

I actually don't have any trees now from the 2010 trip (sold some, lost some). All 4 from the 2013 trip are alive, and next summer, I will be more aggressive in what I collect because I believe I can keep trees alive on a rather limited root system using this method and good aftercare. I bet these two would still be alive if I had just them in the burlap in 2010...these were a heartbreaker loss!
View attachment 122220 View attachment 122221
View attachment 122222 View attachment 122223

Looking forward to see what you get next year.

Most of the junipers I've collected have been from rock. Mats of fine roots felted together so tightly that you have to really work them to get any soil at all to fall off. They still need to be wrapped well but it's more about immobilization than holding soil on. Sometimes separate mats connected by taproots with no soil. I don't really see an advantage to keeping those wrapped. Especially the ones with separate root mats. What's your opinion there?
I have found a spot with some decent spruce and other trees. A spot where a shovel will actually do something, still rocky but diggable and trees come out in a big round kinda loose ball. I'll try your trick with one or two of those hopefully.

 

[wireme]

No...Damn!

Now I see what you are talking about!

@Walter Pall
Any updates on that monster?

Sorce

There has been a couple updates.

http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.ca/2015/08/european-spruce-79.html?m=1

http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.ca/2016/07/european-spruce-79.html?m=1

He has done some really amazing things with a batch of spruce from around 2013. It's quite interesting to note the collection dates and the dates of the blog posts.

That Fir that I used as an example here. I never said anything about its history but that placement into a bonsai pot was the start of its seventh growing season post collection. Not breaking any speed records here.
In hindsight I wish I had left it in the previous pot for another year or two. I can say that because of what I saw when repotting, in order to make the decision beforehand it's not always easy to decide, a bit of guess work involved.

Hers another nice one to read relating to the topic.

http://www.minnesotabonsaisociety.o...per-ryan-neil&catid=7:miscellaneous&Itemid=14

The little fir has really nice bark, not nearly as thick and craggy as some but nice fine textures that work to scale really well.

 

[sorce]

it's not always easy to decide

I hear that.

One can't let their "heart" get in the way.

What was the reason you didn't just drop it right back in the box?

I kind of went through this looking at my boxwood this morning........

"Man, I can get this in a pot soon and start working on branching...."
"Wait, I gotta get half the rootball off..."
"What the hell are the roots gonna look like?"
"Damn, 3 more years!"

And that BHS we talked about in my F.O.E.M.I.N.A. thread.....
I'm still tossing around a couple of ideas that will be determined by what the roots are doing. I thought of that W.P. spruce, and the possibility of (everything this thread is about).

Sorce

 

[wireme]

What was the reason you didn't just drop it right back in the box?

Well.. As I saw it really only one reason to repot at the time. Two different soils in the pot, mountain soil surrounded by substrate. Having two different soils makes watering trickier, mountain soil inside may be always saturated, may be just fine or may become dry and hydrophobic. You try to water accordingly but it's harder to know for sure. Repot and get rid of it and it should be simple after that.
The main reason not to is delays in opportunity to do styling work and a slowing of growth and back budding. Or, yikes, killing it dead, waiting to long might do that too though.
I dug into the bugger this spring based on the first reason above. I was a fair ways into it when I started seeing that I needn't have really had to worry about it, the mountain soil had pretty good percolation qualities itself, better than expected. By that point I didn't see any reason to stop though. I don't see any reason the tree can't do what I would like it to do as potted now. Assuming survival, so far ok. The development of the top may be delayed a year or two or even three but the concern over soil differences is gone. And of course I get to observe what happens for future decisions. I might only have about 10 trees fully barerooted into smallish containers now, probably about 50 more hanging about that will need similar work.

Here's a guy who did something a bit like your idea of cutting roots back in the box. I'd be afraid myself without looking to see what was closer to the trunk but looks like it worked well for him. Awesome tree. http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t4702-douglas-fir-yamadori