root burl on wild cherry

[darby dude]

Hello all, I have been interested in bonsai for many years, admiring more than learning, but actually owning and practicing bonsai only for the past 1.75 years, with an indoor bonsai being my first. I am also brand new here at Bonsai Nut, so once again greetings and hello. Todays issue is: A bonsai acquired last June has always had its health in question. I did not think to much into the health due to the tap root coming out of the only drain hole (one piece pot and drain plate combo) at the side of pot, literally plugging at least 90-95% of the hole. I also had noticed it being root bound to boot. I decided I would just keep it alive and re-pot in spring.....well its spring. I have been repotting others and finally got to the wild cherry and upon opening up roots, I have come across 2 masses/burls one big, one small in addition to the mass of fine roots. My first question is how concerned should I be about this? Is this something I should cut off?? With the big one being as large as it is, it will not allow any kind of shallow potting as planned.... My initial thought is just go with it and find a different pot but with my plans of a considerable pruning (its really tall and spindly) along with a shallow potting I figured I could ask if/what my options could be. I have yet to find any info about an issue like this on the internet and am hoping someone on here might have some advice/knowledge, thanks in advance for any consideration of my issue...DDude

 

[TomB]

I would cut them off. It's a potential sign of root knot nematodes / root gall problems - though it doesn't look quite right for that. Remove, dispose of, get rid of the soil you've removed, sterilise your tools and the old pot afterwards (e.g. with alcohol, hand sanitiser gel). Keep an eye out for recurrence at future repots. May or may not be a problem for the future.

 

[darby dude]

I would cut them off. It's a potential sign of root knot nematodes / root gall problems - though it doesn't look quite right for that. Remove, dispose of, get rid of the soil you've removed, sterilise your tools and the old pot afterwards (e.g. with alcohol, hand sanitiser gel). Keep an eye out for recurrence at future repots. May or may not be a problem for the future.

Oh no, I wasn't really worried about this....until now. I must have put that rootball in no less then 6 pots to check for fit, not to mention anything else it may have touched.....smh. Looks like Im gonna have some early total cleaning in the work station. The tree has been in that condition well over 24 hrs and moved ?? many times. I can't remember what all it has touched or what I touched after handling. Buy stock in alcohol and hand sanitizer, it looks as though I'm gonna be using quite a bit. Thanks for the input.

 

[TomB]

I can't remember what all it has touched or what I touched after handling. Buy stock in alcohol and hand sanitizer, it looks as though I'm gonna be using quite a bit. Thanks for the input.

No need to go overboard and bleach your entire house - just pays to be a bit careful, especially with the tools you use on it.

 

[CasAH]

I had a quince with a root gall. It was fine after removal, until I could not water my trees in 90* weather for two weeks.

Make sure to dispose of any cuttings in the garbage, do not throw in composite pile. If it is disease related you may spread it. Also clean you tools and work surface well as TomB mentioned.

 

[yenling83]

Cut off all the gall you can! I've only seen one tree with root gall like this it was a flowering plum, we cut it off and it seems to be fine several years later.

 

[darby dude]

Well, wish me luck, as it covers 80% of the bottom of tree. I think taking a cutting is prudent and hope that both come out OK. Any suggestions on the way I cut it and type of tool I could use being I only have a couple of really basic bonsai tools? Would a thin hobby saw work?

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy Dude!

Are you from Michigan?

I had something like that on a great tree...
But it was too close to the trunk to just cut off, and it died.

Sorce

 

[darby dude]

Welcome to Crazy Dude!

Are you from Michigan?

I had something like that on a great tree...
But it was too close to the trunk to just cut off, and it died.

Sorce

haha, no...Washington state, Seattle area. I had gotten some really cool trees cheap from a lady on craigslist, this was one of them. Only 1 maybe 2 out of the 9 don't need repotting for various reasons. I took the things off and the different texture between the good root and the Gall was surprising, it seemed so hard but the inner part was junk, soft and kinda spongey. The leaves were showing stress last year, I wonder if that was the reason. Here's the end result in the picture. When I took off the big gall more than half of the roots went with it since they were coming out the bottom side. I figured pruning it down this much might help its chances....I'm seriously winging it, the majority of info I get is from the internet and some of that is conflicting, so yeah, winging it sometimes, lol.

 

[GrimLore]

Here's the end result in the picture. When I took off the big gall more than half of the roots went with it since they were coming out the bottom side. I figured pruning it down this much might help its chances....I'm seriously winging it, the majority of info I get is from the internet and some of that is conflicting, so yeah, winging it sometimes, lol.

Your method is exactly what I would do, reducing the root mass and the plant - makes perfect sense and should work out for you. Also, you don't need a special tool. any saw, garden lopper, etc... for that type of root removal. For the record a lopper is easiest to clean - I use 91 % Isopropyl or Clorox Clean-Up whichever is handy at the time.
As a follow up and a preventative I would strongly recommend dosing those two after cleanup and potting with Sulfur. It is inexpensive and I have read several studies that indicate it does a real nice job of stopping root gall from occurring when plants were exposed on purpose to the infection. It is also an effective product to use on a wide variety of plants that have cedar rust. I would also treat other plants in close proximity as a precaution.
This pound of powder costs 10ish USD. I mix two tablespoons with 1 gallon of water and soak it through after watering once a week during Spring and Summer. After leaf drop I give the plants heavy soak once in Fall and another just prior to Spring bud break. This pound container will make many gallons, most likely enough to last at least a few seasons. -



Grimmy

 

[sorce]

winging it sometimes

Its ok!

We got a guy here who JUST, wings it!

Sorce

 

[darby dude]

Want to thank you guys for your consideration and help. I end up going overboard with almost everything I do and bonsai is no exception, I have more trees than I should and some are a lot nicer than I deserve with my limited experience, so finding this place is a godsend. I wish I would of found you a few days earlier as i was repotting a large forest and a super root bound lilac/azalea bonsai. The help and involvement without a feeling of judgement is greatly appreciated and makes this place #1 in my opinion. I have a million questions but lucky for you my mind won't let me retain but 1-3 at a time, lol. I'll try and post some updates on this tree in a few weeks if I remember to. I hope the remaining trees needing work don't challenge me quite as much as what Ive already done, although if its a cut and dry task Im sure I'll get some wild hair brained idea and complicate it somehow. May all your trees flourish.... ~DD
[

 

[Potawatomi13]

May have got carried away with pruning after drastic shock to roots. Tree looked to be great Literati candidate before whacking off. If wanting to grow out and get bigger trunk do not worry about small pots for some time and good luck with survival.

 

[darby dude]

May have got carried away with pruning after drastic shock to roots. Tree looked to be great Literati candidate before whacking off. If wanting to grow out and get bigger trunk do not worry about small pots for some time and good luck with survival.

I wish I would take more pictures. After cutting just the larger of the 3 (yeah I found another after cutting the first two) galls the amount of roots left were no more than 15-20% of what it had due to majority of the roots grew from bottom of it (big one). So basically the big one was the bottom of tree. The roots left surely didn't look as though it would support the tree as it was, and the literature that I have read and some internet info tells that there needs to be a balance of that action (pruning root and branch). Yes it might have been a good candidate for that style......Honestly, I had never even thought about that. The Literati style imo looks best when tree has smaller size leaves if deciduous or needs to be a conifer. I do have a long legged dogwood in a nursery pot that I will look at with that approach now, thanks! I would rather go with a style that is conducive with the trees growth.

 

[M. Frary]

I think root burns will be just one of many problems you might see with one of these.
They drop branches with the best. Like poplar,birch and willow.
And they are pest magnets.
Honestly if it dies take it as a sign from above and leave these trees alone.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Root gull...sterilize them tools at each cut. Burn the gull...do NOT put that into a compost pile. (What was told to me by the nursery when we had a landscape shrub with it in its roots.) We ended up pulling the entire shrub and burning it.

 

[darby dude]

I think root burns will be just one of many problems you might see with one of these.
They drop branches with the best. Like poplar,birch and willow.
And they are pest magnets.
Honestly if it dies take it as a sign from above and leave these trees alone.

Root gull...sterilize them tools at each cut. Burn the gull...do NOT put that into a compost pile. (What was told to me by the nursery when we had a landscape shrub with it in its roots.) We ended up pulling the entire shrub and burning it.

*sigh.....well from what I have read I really just need to toss it, problem is it may be not soon enough. Just having it in my bonsai garden it might have infected others, let alone my recent work on the tree and possible contamination. I sterilized tools, working area, and pots that I set it in for fit and looks, but doubt I got everything. I do most everything with a wild abandonment and until now that included potting, who knows what got missed, smh. I am working much more regimented but have a pit in my stomach that this is going to be a harsh learning experience. There is no fix for this, once it affects a plant its there for good according to what I've read. If I keep it, (quarantined of course) it will only be to see what happens and what to keep an eye on. Even with that any water run off may contaminate other plants. I have tonight to think about it, tomorrow its fate is sealed. Pretty sure its on the green mile though.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Soil contamination...and any tools that came across it. No other trees in my landscape were effected. But if you don't clean your tools and move to the next bonsai. Then, Huston you may have a problem. After dealing with root gull. I always sterilize with Lysol as directed by the nursery between trees. And if there is a problem...before each new cut is made.

It's a lesson one learns...the hard way.

 

[sorce]

date before whacking off.

Please.

Sorce

 

[Pixar]

looks like my left testicle