Rough Bark Maple ID

grizzlywon

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I need help with a couple new trees I bought this week.

I was told by the owner that they are just "mountain Maples" from Japan. But the bark is very rough and not what I have seen in any book before other than in the Arakawa family. He said that they are not Arakawa.

These are not grafted and I was told that the seeds of this variety will produce a decent percentage of rough bark maples just like these! He said that they do very well in the heat where I live unlike other varieties. He is very knowledgeable, but there was a bit of language barrier.

All I know is that I am in love with these trees and I already have 5 air layers going on these guys.

What do you think? Please help id these.
 

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rockm

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This looks like "Arakawa" to me. Very vigorous when a sapling to middle age. Slows greatly after a decade or so. They "bark up" nicely, but it can take a few years. Yours seem well along in the process.
 

grizzlywon

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I have always hear that Arakawa don't grow well from seed. I even asked about it here in a thread and everyone told me to graft them cause the seeds won't produce. Is Mountain Maple just a generic name for all Acer Palmatum's?
 

rockm

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Define "growing well"

Arakawa grow fine from seed, however, what you wind up with may not have Arakawa tendencies. Specific cultivars of Acer palmatum aren't grafted because they can't grow on their own roots. Most are propagated by grafts because their seeds may not "breed true"--not reliably producing the specific characteristics of their parent. Grafts are clones of their parent stock-they're the same tree and are more reliable in producing the cultivar specific traits.

That is, you might not get the rough bark on a seedling from a rough barked tree. I'd check extra closely for graft marks and pay particular attention to the surface roots. Arakawa grafted for container and bonsai culture tend to have very low grafts that blend very well. However, surface roots can give a graft away as they tend to have smoother skin than the graft.

Mountain maple is a generic term for Acer Palmatum that distinguishes it from other Asian maple species like trident and full moon maple.
 
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mapleman77

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Specific cultivars of Acer palmatum aren't grafted because they can't grow on their own roots..
I beg to differ; Acer palmatum cultivars can and do grow on their roots. Refer to Brent's website and others for information on this matter. I have a cultivar that is cutting grown (see http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2078&highlight=Alpenweiss) and it is doing quite well.

Not trying to ruffle any feathers, just presenting my observations and pointing to others' observations as well. ;)
 

Smoke

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I beg to differ; Acer palmatum cultivars can and do grow on their roots. Refer to Brent's website and others for information on this matter. I have a cultivar that is cutting grown (see http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2078&highlight=Alpenweiss) and it is doing quite well.

Not trying to ruffle any feathers, just presenting my observations and pointing to others' observations as well. ;)
Reread his post.... I think you may have been a little confused.
 

yenling83

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Wow really nice bark! Occassionally I have seen just plain old acer palmatum with a rougher bark. Although this looks pretty rough. It sounds like this is likely just a chance seedling that has really nice bark.

Although the best advice I could give you would be:
for the best answer you should ask Brent.
 

grizzlywon

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It's hard to tell by my photos are of two different trees. The nursery had many trees like this. Some a lot rougher than others. But I'm quite sure none of them were grafted. I have seen my share of grafted maples and these are not.
 

mapleman77

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Reread his post.... I think you may have been a little confused.
Thanks Al, I reread it and I indeed misread his statement. Sorry Rockm; I should have paid closer attention to what I was reading than being all to ready to disagree. :eek::rolleyes:;)

In any case I love the bark. Whether it is a seedling or cultivar it looks very good. What are you plans for this tree?
 
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