Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
Leave it as it is
Cutting foliage does not promote root growth.
Having foliage fuel the roots promotes root growth
Scots Pine, what to do
- Thread starter The Warm Canuck
- Start date
Leave it as it is
Cutting foliage does not promote root growth.
Having foliage fuel the roots promotes root growth
Fi5ch
Yamadori
Do you suggest waiting until the fall to wire because the plant is still growing and the wire will pinch/mark the bark/trunk/limbs?
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
Fall is the best time because wiring and doing bends in the summer can cause the bark to slip and kill the branch because the branches are more full with water/sap during the summer.
Plus its very easy to accidentally break off the new season's growth. Scots are single flush pines, you dont want to be knocking off this year's growth
River's Edge
Masterpiece
Leave foliage intact. Root growth is promoted by photosynthesis, the more foliage, the more photosynthesis
I am located on an acreage near Parksville. I would keep it outside in a more sheltered location from wind or too much direct sun for the time being. Being in the Garage will not help keep the foliage healthy!
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
First of all the tree needs to be potted up with the roots straightened out laterally into a larger pot, prefferably a colander where the tree has room to grow without the roots strangeling thew rest of the tree. Once the tee is in a colander push a 33mm aluminum wire down into the soil along side the stem/trunk and coil it around the trunk in a clockwise direction bottom to top. then take the tree stwem and bend it and twist it around clockwise until it is at least half as tall as it is now. Once achieving that form leave it alone and let it grow for a year or two and watch what happens. Take some pictures for the gang here to see as it grows.
The Warm Canuck
Shohin
Wow, your a lucky person to have acreage in that area!Leave foliage intact. Root growth is promoted by photosynthesis, the more foliage, the more photosynthesis
I am located on an acreage near Parksville. I would keep it outside in a more sheltered location from wind or too much direct sun for the time being. Being in the Garage will not help keep the foliage healthy!
The trees just in the garage for the first week after cultivation, both garage doors are open, so the tree is still getting good air and indirect sunlight. I'll be moving it to the porch tomorrow, against a sheltered wall, receiving only a few hours of direct sun light.
The Warm Canuck
Shohin
Wouldn't doing everything you have detailed, extremely further stress the tree? It wasn't even taken out of the ground a week ago. Now that it's already potted, maybe should I not wait to next spring?
The reason I potted it the way i did, was due to the fact that the tree had been hit by a tractor a few years back, and the root ball was thick vertically, with very little horizontal roots. I had to construct a deeper pot to facilitate that. I was worried that if I pruned any more of the thick roots from the bottom, the tree wouldn't make it, because it essentially wouldn't hardly have any roots anymore. Also, half of the root ball with the original soil fell off the tree, which further was worry-some. Furthermore, If I would have increased the size of the pot laterally, I probably wouldn't be able to move it.
My thinking was get it into a pot, trying to leave as much root matter as I can, and in the spring, repot and prune the bottom of the root ball more substantially. Obviously, I am new to this and much appreciative constructive criticism, if my thinking is flawed.
I don't really understand what you mean by coiling the tree and bending it, do you have a picture that depicts the method?
Last edited:
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
I don't think Vance is advocating for you to do this now. If the tree was taken out of the ground last week, then yes you should wait. I would say even longer than next spring.
Get it strong again this year and next. Let it grow more roots and repot it in 2023 if it's ready.
By bending the tree, he means wire the trunk with copper wire and put some bends (ie movement) into it. You might be able to do that this fall. See how well it recovers this summer. Pines are very flexible when young so you should be able to get some good bends in that trunk.
Last edited:
The Warm Canuck
Shohin
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
Lol ok. Both myself and Vance were referring to the pine. But yea any tree that was just potted a week ago should not be repotted yet
The Warm Canuck
Shohin
oh haha, ok that makes sense now.
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
Drewski
Mame
@The Warm Canuck
Welcome aboard. Always nice to see another Canuck on here.
When you’re looking for more material check out @Canada Bonsai. He’s out in Halifax, and each spring has some great pre-bonsai material for sale. Earlier this year I ordered several trees from him (JBP, privet, azalea, quince, beauty berry, an elm and one other that escapes me right now). Some are rooted shoots, and others are older with some movement already put in them. I’m pretty happy with what I got. You need to get on his mailing list though. When he lists items for sale in spring, they go fast.
Welcome aboard. Always nice to see another Canuck on here.
When you’re looking for more material check out @Canada Bonsai. He’s out in Halifax, and each spring has some great pre-bonsai material for sale. Earlier this year I ordered several trees from him (JBP, privet, azalea, quince, beauty berry, an elm and one other that escapes me right now). Some are rooted shoots, and others are older with some movement already put in them. I’m pretty happy with what I got. You need to get on his mailing list though. When he lists items for sale in spring, they go fast.
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
We're going to have to cancel your passport if say things like this again.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Do What you want, Idon't know anything.
The Warm Canuck
Shohin
My apologies if I offended you, I extremely appreciate your knowledge and experience, I only ask questions to further understand your reasoning, so i can learn.
And I'm still not sure if you where talking about the Scots Pine still, or the Eastern White Cedar that I harvested.
Last edited:
The Warm Canuck
Shohin
Thanks for the tip my friend, I'll look him up.@The Warm Canuck
Welcome aboard. Always nice to see another Canuck on here.
When you’re looking for more material check out @Canada Bonsai. He’s out in Halifax, and each spring has some great pre-bonsai material for sale. Earlier this year I ordered several trees from him (JBP, privet, azalea, quince, beauty berry, an elm and one other that escapes me right now). Some are rooted shoots, and others are older with some movement already put in them. I’m pretty happy with what I got. You need to get on his mailing list though. When he lists items for sale in spring, they go fast.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
My reasoning is in the process I have been using for years. I am talking about the Scotts Pine.
River's Edge
Masterpiece
One of the advantages of planting seed is young trees, one of the disadvantages is keeping up with them! In this case I found a four year old JRP of similar shape to your Scots pine to illustrate the suggestions you received. I will not presume to do it the way the other individuals might, we have our own methods and quirks with some principals being the same. However, a bit easier than just a written description. Two pictures before and after! What I did in sequence!
1. removed old needles and needles in areas to aid wiring!
2. reduced whorls to two branches ( whorl # 1 ) and three branches ( whorl # 2) to reduce issues with knuckles or reverse taper developing. Also to allow for secondary apical sacrifice and developing taper at whorl number two from the bottom. The extra branch.
3. Main trunk is bent off to the side to continue as primary apical sacrifice.
4. One of the three at whorl # 2 will be wired up for developing taper and continuing apical sacrifice after main apical sacrifice is remove in two or three years.
5. Other remaining branches are wired with downward movement in the first three or four inches of the branch, preferably angled on an outer curve.
6. The top apical sacrifice is thinned of needles and side shoot to reduce shading on the lower portion and promote extension growth for thickening the trunk.
Notes: the trunk is approximately 3/4 diameter near the base so I chose #6 copper wire to introduce movement to the trunk. Shaper bends would be possible but this is a JRP and I chose a slender gentle movement for a slightly taller form. That is also why I chose the second whorl to continue taper and apical sacrifice. Further thickening will be achieved with remaining lower sacrifice branches that have been wired with downward movement. Chose #12 copper for the small branches.
The bends were planned to create branches on the outside of the curves as much as possible. Keep in mind that with sacrifice leaders and branches being removed over the coming years a great deal of new buds, shoots and branches will be formed in the lower portion of the tree. It is entirely possible that only one or none of the current branches will be part of the final design.
Hope the pictures help to illustrate the suggestions. The wiring is developmental not intended for show
The next stage is to allow the trunk to thicken and the tree to grow for three or four years. Minor pruning to balance growth and maintain health. The successive cut backs to promote new buds, shoots and begin design work in earnest. Years seven to 10 if a smaller or medium design. Years 12 to 20 for a larger format as a rough guide.
When bending the trunk and branches create movement in all directions if possible not a simple curve or one dimensional movement. If I posted a series of pictures the end result should look different from every side. It is hard to judge curves from a two dimensional picture but keep in mind variation.
1. removed old needles and needles in areas to aid wiring!
2. reduced whorls to two branches ( whorl # 1 ) and three branches ( whorl # 2) to reduce issues with knuckles or reverse taper developing. Also to allow for secondary apical sacrifice and developing taper at whorl number two from the bottom. The extra branch.
3. Main trunk is bent off to the side to continue as primary apical sacrifice.
4. One of the three at whorl # 2 will be wired up for developing taper and continuing apical sacrifice after main apical sacrifice is remove in two or three years.
5. Other remaining branches are wired with downward movement in the first three or four inches of the branch, preferably angled on an outer curve.
6. The top apical sacrifice is thinned of needles and side shoot to reduce shading on the lower portion and promote extension growth for thickening the trunk.
Notes: the trunk is approximately 3/4 diameter near the base so I chose #6 copper wire to introduce movement to the trunk. Shaper bends would be possible but this is a JRP and I chose a slender gentle movement for a slightly taller form. That is also why I chose the second whorl to continue taper and apical sacrifice. Further thickening will be achieved with remaining lower sacrifice branches that have been wired with downward movement. Chose #12 copper for the small branches.
The bends were planned to create branches on the outside of the curves as much as possible. Keep in mind that with sacrifice leaders and branches being removed over the coming years a great deal of new buds, shoots and branches will be formed in the lower portion of the tree. It is entirely possible that only one or none of the current branches will be part of the final design.
Hope the pictures help to illustrate the suggestions. The wiring is developmental not intended for show
The next stage is to allow the trunk to thicken and the tree to grow for three or four years. Minor pruning to balance growth and maintain health. The successive cut backs to promote new buds, shoots and begin design work in earnest. Years seven to 10 if a smaller or medium design. Years 12 to 20 for a larger format as a rough guide.
When bending the trunk and branches create movement in all directions if possible not a simple curve or one dimensional movement. If I posted a series of pictures the end result should look different from every side. It is hard to judge curves from a two dimensional picture but keep in mind variation.
The Warm Canuck
Shohin
I see our misunderstanding, I thought you where detailing how to work the Cedar I posted a picture of later in this thread.
Vance, as per your recommendation to encourage lateral root growth: would it be alright to "split pot" it now, trying to not disrupt the root ball, leaving it in it's current soil, but split potting it into a colander style pot with some bonsai soil, around the current soil? Or wait until spring? and wire it this fall/winter.
Thanks again for your advice.
