Serviceberry experience

amcoffeegirl

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Just thinking I might want a serviceberry.
Can you help me pick a type good for bonsai?
I generally like shohin but this may be different for me.
 

Tycoss

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I have a few amelanchier alnifolia, aka Saskatoon Bush. They bloom heavily and early, develop edible fruit, are very hardy and backbud well. Getting really dense branching seems to be difficult, and they sucker freely. I'd compare them to a crab apple, which they are related to, but I'd say they are better overall. My very old 13" tall pre bonsai specimen had 42 berries on it last year.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I'm relatively early in my experiments with Amelanchier. Actually, if I were consistent in my care, I could be further along, but I did very little actual work on them. In 2014 I purchased 2 Amelanchier x Grandiflora 'Regent', the man made hybrid Serviceberry, (A. arborea x A. laevis) One parent, the downy serviceberry, A. arborea, is more tree like than most Amelanchier, can reach heights of 60 feet tall (rare but does happen), and trunk diameters to 6 inches or so. The other parent A. laevis, the smooth serviceberry, is also fairly tree like, not much smaller than the downy serviceberry. So you have a hybrid of two rather tree like species. I do want to correct something, in the Native Tree, Native Pot contest thread, I suggested Amelanchier x grandiflora is strictly a man made hybrid. I have since discovered it also occurs as a natural hybrid, as the range of the two parent species overlap. So for the contest, the answer is yes, x grandiflora cultivars may be allowed.

Most of the other serviceberries, but not all, most, are more shrub like in their growth habit. Large diameter trunks are very slow to develop. My initial thought was to experiment, with which is quicker. I took one nursery plant, did the radical root work needed to put it in an Anderson flat, without pruning the top. Then after the tree has recovered, the plan was to begin working the branches. The second I immediately did the "chop" and reduced it to a single trunk, then a year after the "chop" I repotted to an Anderson flat. I did not try the obvious third option, do the root work and chop all on the same day. At this point, I think doing the chop first, and root work the same day or later may actually be the "quickest" sequence to getting a pre-bonsai result. But I never followed up with much actual training. So this month we are at the 5 year mark since purchase. I don't have current photos, but both are alive and both look remarkably similar to the way they looked in photos 2 and 3 years ago. This is in part because I was too busy with the blueberry farm and other projects to do much work.

Also, growth is better in 3/4 to full sun. In shady locations, they tolerate the shade but do not grow much. Shade growth tends to be sparse and wispy. They are shade tolerant, unlike pines, they will "go on forever" in shade, but growth is better in 3/4 sun or higher sun. At least in my northern-midwest climate. Those of you in desert climates may find you need more shade. In areas where we get rain in summer, they do fine in full sun.

Actually, the Sept 2014 purchase was a group of 12 Amelanchier, all the same 'Regent' cultivar, and the rest were passed out to the Arbor Arts Collective Milwaukee Chapter study group. This attached photo shows 4 of them brought together at a 2015 meeting of AAC. You can see the smallest pot is the product of doing the chop and radical root work all at once. The one on the left pretty much had nothing done, and the one on the right was chopped with no repotting. You can see where it was "all done the same day" the product looks more bonsai like. Clearly young, only one growing season after purchase. Since they are all the same cultivar the comparison is a fair one.

Amelanchier-AAC group July2015 (2019_10_20 19_42_16 UTC).JPG

Amelanchier are slow to "trunk up". Since they are a relatively small, graceful tree, or more commonly a shrub, it takes time to develop large diameter trunks. The trunk @Tycoss has on his Serviceberry is definitely a very, very exceptional, and likely very old specimen. His Amelanchier is truly a rare gem for the species. The aged look does not come quickly to serviceberry. I think for practical purposes with the majority of species plan on trunks between one and 2 inches diameter, (2.5 to 5.0 cm) and not much more unless you collect them already a larger size. These small diameter trunks means they are best for shohin or slightly larger than shohin bonsai, not really for larger bonsai trees. Bark on young trees is smooth, much like the bark of a beech or an American hornbeam. Leaves are not overly large and reduce well with ramification.

DSCN4191 (2019_10_20 19_42_16 UTC).jpg & IMG_20200511_140528614.jpg

Flowers open in spring, buds emerging before the leaves, and opening fully before leaves finish expanding. So there are leaves and flowers present at the same time, but the leaves will only be partially expanded about the time the flowers are finishing. In other words, flowers will look good and be a prominent feature for your spring bonsai display.

IMG_20170623_162225311 (2019_10_20 19_42_16 UTC).jpg
Fruit ripen early to middle summer, depending on latitude, 3rd week of June in Chicago-Milwaukee area. Fully ripe is purple. Some species fully ripe fruit is red. Most fully ripe fruit is purple or blue-purple. Fruit is sweet, apple like, seed is soft usually chewed and eaten with the fruit, and gives a mild almond flavor to the apple like flavor of the flesh. The fruit is not as moist as an apple, so if you each more than a handful, you may want water available. A significant food for First Nations people, there are some limited attempts to develop Amelanchier as a commercial orchard crop.

IMG_20170423_134521394 (2019_10_20 19_42_16 UTC).jpg
The above (click for full image) is my "root work first" Amelanchier 'Regent' in front of Irene's landscape 'Regent'. To give you an idea of what they look like in the landscape. An April 2017 photo. Both are the same cultivar.

DSCN3333 (2019_10_20 19_42_16 UTC).JPG

Autumn color is fair to pretty good, usually yellows, oranges and reds, sometimes on the same tree. Some trees will have mostly yellow, some more red.

Amelanchier1-April2016d (2019_10_20 19_42_16 UTC).jpg & DSCN4191 (2019_10_20 19_42_16 UTC).jpg
My root work first Amelanchier. Fully 6 years after purchase, I still have not gotten around to "making the chop". Don't know why, other than I keep thinking I love the flower display.

My chop first root work following year Amelanchier. On this one, it has not flowered since the "chop" of the trunks. I know it will eventually, but 4 years post chop, it still has not resumed flowering. Don't know if this is a good sign or a bad sign, or just my less than ideal horticulture.
Amelanchier2-April2016d-close (2019_10_20 19_42_16 UTC).jpg

This pretty much sums up everything I know about Amelanchier. I have not "pushed" them to become bonsai, been too busy with other things. All in all, what I've seen they seem EXCELLENT for smaller size bonsai, or if you get a big trunk as @Tycoss was able to, you can go larger if the trunk size allows you to do so.
 

Bnana

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We only have Amelanchier lamarckii in the Netherlands. That's a common introduced species.
I like their colours a lot and they flower nicely.
It's a shrub to small tree, do you think that would be a suitable species?
 

ABCarve

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I collected one a number of years ago. I think it was a “downy”....they are native around here in my woods. Had it in development for 5 years or so. The problem was that pruning it to keep within the confines of bonsai seemed to remove the future flower buds. I finally put it back in the ground as an ornamental.
Not saying it can’t be done but I think the style may be dictated by its growth habit. Maybe something tall and literati like. I didn’t know then what I know now and would consider giving it another go.
 

hinmo24t

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id love my berriesserviced too. jp im bad sometimes. i think im not used to such a woman occupied forum (which is great) but i should watch my language...vwvortex, 4runner.org etc. etc. i had many years on. im a nice gentleman in real life too which i guess is whats really important

cool looking species. the first reference in here reminded me of a mature chicory i potted up in the summer, and got to take in a pot.

ill try to get a picture of it sometime on here and will read up on the serviceberry
 

ABCarve

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I'm relatively early in my experiments with Amelanchier. Actually, if I were consistent in my care, I could be further along, but I did very little actual work on them. In 2014 I purchased 2 Amelanchier x Grandiflora 'Regent', the man made hybrid Serviceberry, (A. arborea x A. laevis) One parent, the downy serviceberry, A. arborea, is more tree like than most Amelanchier, can reach heights of 60 feet tall (rare but does happen), and trunk diameters to 6 inches or so. The other parent A. laevis, the smooth serviceberry, is also fairly tree like, not much smaller than the downy serviceberry. So you have a hybrid of two rather tree like species. I do want to correct something, in the Native Tree, Native Pot contest thread, I suggested Amelanchier x grandiflora is strictly a man made hybrid. I have since discovered it also occurs as a natural hybrid, as the range of the two parent species overlap. So for the contest, the answer is yes, x grandiflora cultivars may be allowed.

Most of the other serviceberries, but not all, most, are more shrub like in their growth habit. Large diameter trunks are very slow to develop. My initial thought was to experiment, with which is quicker. I took one nursery plant, did the radical root work needed to put it in an Anderson flat, without pruning the top. Then after the tree has recovered, the plan was to begin working the branches. The second I immediately did the "chop" and reduced it to a single trunk, then a year after the "chop" I repotted to an Anderson flat. I did not try the obvious third option, do the root work and chop all on the same day. At this point, I think doing the chop first, and root work the same day or later may actually be the "quickest" sequence to getting a pre-bonsai result. But I never followed up with much actual training. So this month we are at the 5 year mark since purchase. I don't have current photos, but both are alive and both look remarkably similar to the way they looked in photos 2 and 3 years ago. This is in part because I was too busy with the blueberry farm and other projects to do much work.

Also, growth is better in 3/4 to full sun. In shady locations, they tolerate the shade but do not grow much. Shade growth tends to be sparse and wispy. They are shade tolerant, unlike pines, they will "go on forever" in shade, but growth is better in 3/4 sun or higher sun. At least in my northern-midwest climate. Those of you in desert climates may find you need more shade. In areas where we get rain in summer, they do fine in full sun.

Actually, the Sept 2014 purchase was a group of 12 Amelanchier, all the same 'Regent' cultivar, and the rest were passed out to the Arbor Arts Collective Milwaukee Chapter study group. This attached photo shows 4 of them brought together at a 2015 meeting of AAC. You can see the smallest pot is the product of doing the chop and radical root work all at once. The one on the left pretty much had nothing done, and the one on the right was chopped with no repotting. You can see where it was "all done the same day" the product looks more bonsai like. Clearly young, only one growing season after purchase. Since they are all the same cultivar the comparison is a fair one.

View attachment 329738

Amelanchier are slow to "trunk up". Since they are a relatively small, graceful tree, or more commonly a shrub, it takes time to develop large diameter trunks. The trunk @Tycoss has on his Serviceberry is definitely a very, very exceptional, and likely very old specimen. His Amelanchier is truly a rare gem for the species. The aged look does not come quickly to serviceberry. I think for practical purposes with the majority of species plan on trunks between one and 2 inches diameter, (2.5 to 5.0 cm) and not much more unless you collect them already a larger size. These small diameter trunks means they are best for shohin or slightly larger than shohin bonsai, not really for larger bonsai trees. Bark on young trees is smooth, much like the bark of a beech or an American hornbeam. Leaves are not overly large and reduce well with ramification.

View attachment 329740 & View attachment 329741

Flowers open in spring, buds emerging before the leaves, and opening fully before leaves finish expanding. So there are leaves and flowers present at the same time, but the leaves will only be partially expanded about the time the flowers are finishing. In other words, flowers will look good and be a prominent feature for your spring bonsai display.

View attachment 329742
Fruit ripen early to middle summer, depending on latitude, 3rd week of June in Chicago-Milwaukee area. Fully ripe is purple. Some species fully ripe fruit is red. Most fully ripe fruit is purple or blue-purple. Fruit is sweet, apple like, seed is soft usually chewed and eaten with the fruit, and gives a mild almond flavor to the apple like flavor of the flesh. The fruit is not as moist as an apple, so if you each more than a handful, you may want water available. A significant food for First Nations people, there are some limited attempts to develop Amelanchier as a commercial orchard crop.

View attachment 329743
The above (click for full image) is my "root work first" Amelanchier 'Regent' in front of Irene's landscape 'Regent'. To give you an idea of what they look like in the landscape. An April 2017 photo. Both are the same cultivar.

View attachment 329737

Autumn color is fair to pretty good, usually yellows, oranges and reds, sometimes on the same tree. Some trees will have mostly yellow, some more red.

View attachment 329745 & View attachment 329740
My root work first Amelanchier. Fully 6 years after purchase, I still have not gotten around to "making the chop". Don't know why, other than I keep thinking I love the flower display.

My chop first root work following year Amelanchier. On this one, it has not flowered since the "chop" of the trunks. I know it will eventually, but 4 years post chop, it still has not resumed flowering. Don't know if this is a good sign or a bad sign, or just my less than ideal horticulture.
View attachment 329744

This pretty much sums up everything I know about Amelanchier. I have not "pushed" them to become bonsai, been too busy with other things. All in all, what I've seen they seem EXCELLENT for smaller size bonsai, or if you get a big trunk as @Tycoss was able to, you can go larger if the trunk size allows you to do so.
Well Leo..... I found a couple “downies” growing back in my woods and I think I’m going to give it go this spring. They’re not big, maybe 1/2” or so and 36” high. I want to develop as literati. They are growing on the edge of the woods and haven’t received much light. I’ve never seen them flower. Questions....#1-How old do they have to be for flowering. #2-What is a pruning regime that would allow flower buds to develop for the next year.
 

Kanorin

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I've plans to take cuttings from a few downy serviceberries this spring/summer.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Well Leo..... I found a couple “downies” growing back in my woods and I think I’m going to give it go this spring. They’re not big, maybe 1/2” or so and 36” high. I want to develop as literati. They are growing on the edge of the woods and haven’t received much light. I’ve never seen them flower. Questions....#1-How old do they have to be for flowering. #2-What is a pruning regime that would allow flower buds to develop for the next year.

They flower on the previous season's new wood. Usually from the tips of branches, and the terminal few nodes. The branches you want flowers on, I would stop pruning those specific branches by the beginning of July. I have not had a lot of experience. The one whose trunk I'm trying to let get bigger blooms every year, but I have not been pruning it at all. Its about 4 feet tall right now, and barely an inch and half in diameter. The one I chopped 2 years ago has not rebloomed yet. So a hard chop back to stumps, the new replacement branches don't start blooming again right away.

They definitely need sun to bloom, so while they may grow in shade, you don't get flowers until they are in near full sun. I don't know how old from seed they have to be I'm guessing 5 years or older. Nursery stock, which is cutting or graft grown seems to bloom right away.
 

Tycoss

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My old fellow discussed above flowers every year, but not very much on branches pruned too late in the growing season. I'd agree with Leo that if you want flowers/fruit, don't prune after mid summer.
 
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