Shibui 2023 root over rock starters

[Shibui]

June is official start of winter down here and the leaves have fallen so that's enough for me to start lifting trees.
Most years I start with the new Root over Rock plantings because it's like opening presents - never know what you'll get.

These spend the first year in boxes in the nursery where they get plenty of water to make sure of good root growth down and over the rocks.

Some have grown roots through the polystyrene box so at least some have made good roots.


Separate out individual trees.


Roughly cut the roots back to make them easier to handle


Which side has the best roots could determine where and how to cut the top so I like to wait until I see the roots before trimming the top.

 

[Michael P]

You didn't open your presents--the wrapping is still on!

 

[Shibui]

You didn't open your presents--the wrapping is still on!

You must be a rip off the paper type person. I tend to savour the moment and stretch it out longer.........

 

[Shibui]

Here are a few unwrapped.


Some Ok and some better.

 

[Kievnstavick]

That 3rd to last on with the sharp angle is the one that piques my interest the most. It is almost mirroring the angle on the tip of the rock.

 

[Shibui]

Mirroring the angle of the rock is a good comment.
Root over rock needs to have not only good roots over a good rock. It also needs good trunk line that compliments the shape and angle of the rock. Also needs to have a good flow of roots over the rock.
Now that I can see all those features it is time to do a rough trim of the long shoots. Just enough to make them easier to handle for a start.


Next step will be to assess and adjust the roots.

 

[Tieball]

Nice work completed on the root over rock developments. Outstanding rock colors that look so natural combined with the roots. The roots, thick ones and especially the thin exploratory roots, are tightly clinging to the rock. Do the roots cling to and develop on all sides of the rock?

Most excellent! Mighty fine!

 

[Shibui]

The roots, thick ones and especially the thin exploratory roots, are tightly clinging to the rock. Do the roots cling to and develop on all sides of the rock?

In the next post I'll show how those new roots develop in the narrow space between rock and foil with no soil or other media. Don't believe any misinformation that roots cannot grow where there's no soil!

It is important to start when the roots are thin and pliable enough that pressure from the foil can push them tight into any hollows and crevices. Thicker roots may conform to rounded rocks but the really interesting rocks invariably have high and low spots.
Another important point is to start with roots on all sides of the rock. Whenever I end up with rocks that only have roots on 2 or 3 sides the growing trunk and thickening roots invariably push the tree away from the rock resulting in gaps and spaces which does not look good. Sometimes there's a chance to make minor changes after the first year's growth but after that, maple roots get pretty stiff. Pines and Chinese elm roots stay pliable for much longer so we may have a couple of years to make changes to roots.

 

[Hartinez]

Hey Shibui! They look great. though, Aren’t these rocks going to be completely swallowed up by the trident in 5 years time? I was a little surprised to see the size of rocks you used for the species. What is your long term plan?

 

[Tieball]

In the next post I'll show how those new roots develop in the narrow space between rock and foil with no soil or other media. Don't believe any misinformation that roots cannot grow where there's no soil!

It is important to start when the roots are thin and pliable enough that pressure from the foil can push them tight into any hollows and crevices. Thicker roots may conform to rounded rocks but the really interesting rocks invariably have high and low spots.
Another important point is to start with roots on all sides of the rock. Whenever I end up with rocks that only have roots on 2 or 3 sides the growing trunk and thickening roots invariably push the tree away from the rock resulting in gaps and spaces which does not look good. Sometimes there's a chance to make minor changes after the first year's growth but after that, maple roots get pretty stiff. Pines and Chinese elm roots stay pliable for much longer so we may have a couple of years to make changes to roots.

I look forward to seeing and learning more.

 

[Shibui]

Hey Shibui! They look great. though, Aren’t these rocks going to be completely swallowed up by the trident in 5 years time? I was a little surprised to see the size of rocks you used for the species. What is your long term plan?

Good pickup!
Long term plan for these is for shohin and mame sized bonsai. Growth will be strictly controlled to minimize large scars and excess growth which should also restrict root thickening.
I have another batch on larger rocks that will be developed into medium sized bonsai. May post some of those here at some stage too.

 

[Tieball]

Good pickup!
Long term plan for these is for shohin and mame sized bonsai. Growth will be strictly controlled to minimize large scars and excess growth which should also restrict root thickening.
I have another batch on larger rocks that will be developed into medium sized bonsai. May post some of those here at some stage too.

Excellent! I will enjoy learning more about both size groups. Especially the Shohin size as it is something I would like to try.

 

[Michael P]

You must be a rip off the paper type person. I tend to savour the moment and stretch it out longer.........

When I was younger and still allowed people to give me presents, they teased me because I always carefully unwrapped the boxes without tearing the paper, LOL. Thank you, I really admire your work and your excellent and methodical advice.

 

[Michael P]

You must be a rip off the paper type person. I tend to savour the moment and stretch it out longer.........

Actually, people used to tease me because I carefully unwrap presents without tearing the paper, LOL. Thank you, I admire your work and your excellent methodical advice.

Oops, sorry for the duplicate! How does one delete an entire post?

 

[BonsaiDTLA]

Good pickup!
Long term plan for these is for shohin and mame sized bonsai. Growth will be strictly controlled to minimize large scars and excess growth which should also restrict root thickening.
I have another batch on larger rocks that will be developed into medium sized bonsai. May post some of those here at some stage too.

Please do post.. enjoying seeing the pictures and development

 

[Shibui]

Next step for me is to assess the roots.
This is typical of what happens under the foil.

Check all those new white roots growing everywhere. No soil, no muck. Those thin white roots, and a few of the brown ones, have all emerged through last summer. Provided some water can get in from the top, the foil wrap holds in moisture against the rock and provides ideal humidity and conditions for new and existing roots. Initially the roots do not even need to stick out at the bottom of the foil wrap. Good conditions will allow them to continue to grow down and out the bottom into the soil in the box.

@Hartinez picked up earlier that trident roots typically grow, thicken and fuse together so leaving this mass of roots will almost certainly result in the rock completely disappearing under a fused mass of roots in a few years. Not much point growing root over rock where the rock cannot be seen. I guess that would be root over style.
Need to remove some to keep a few strategic spaces.
After removing the younger roots. Still probably more than necessary but still enough rock showing.

The other side: similar lots of new emerging roots to remove.

After

There are still a couple of crossing roots but I'll get back to that.

Another example:


So far the original roots have been adequate. It is still often possible to manipulate or move some of the base roots at this stage if necessary.

 

[Shibui]

To satisfy @Hartinez I unpotted a box of the larger ROR starters. It was starting to get dark so only photos of the wrapped rocks so far.

Those are definitely just starting on the growth phase. Provided root development on these is satisfactory they will be rewrapped and planted in the grow beds for some real growth next year.

Also found another box of potential shohin ROR starters that I had forgotten about

How good is that?
Weather looks very wet down here tomorrow so I may not get to open any of those for a few days.

 

[Hartinez]

To satisfy @Hartinez I unpotted a box of the larger ROR starters. It was starting to get dark so only photos of the wrapped rocks so far.
View attachment 492516View attachment 492513View attachment 492514
Those are definitely just starting on the growth phase. Provided root development on these is satisfactory they will be rewrapped and planted in the grow beds for some real growth next year.

Also found another box of potential shohin ROR starters that I had forgotten about
View attachment 492517
How good is that?
Weather looks very wet down here tomorrow so I may not get to open any of those for a few days.

Never doubted you shibui! Excellent work across the board!

 

[Shibui]

It stopped raining long enough to open that next batch of trees.
Root development was not as good as the previous box, even the bigger ones. Those 2 latest boxes were in more shade under the benches which makes me wonder whether root development is tied to sun exposure. I guess it makes sense that leaves convert sunlight to food so more sun = more growth.
A few of the smaller ones:


The bigger rocks:



After some pruning and root adjustment they have all been rewrapped and will get another year to do better. The larger ones now have roots out the bottom so can go into the grow beds for a year.

 

[Kievnstavick]

I quite like where picture #39, #40, and #46 are headed. Please keep the updates coming over time!