shoot pruning for black pine!

[bonhe]

I decide to post this topic today, because this time is critical time for black pine training in my area!
I like to summarize some terminology: when spring growth begins, buds become the candles with tiny short needles. Then candles elongate with needles getting long, they become shoots. In this topic, I will talk about shoot cutting which is very important to train the pine into bonsai. Depending on the age of the tree (young or old), health (weak or strong), the timing for shoot pruning is different. In my area, mid-June is best time to do this work for established / healthy trees. Mid -September is best time to do shoot pruning for young/weak trees.

Many people already know how to prune the shoot: cut all the way to the border of the previous growth season and this season. I call it as " Complete pruning of spring shoot". Please see pictures.
This is Spring shoot


It is cut all the way to its base. This cut, I name it as "complete pruning of spring shoot"



A is the previous year growth shoot. B is this spring growth shoot.


Now I am talking about another kind of pruning. Instead of cutting all the way to the base of spring shoot, I cut half, or more or less of it. This cut, I name is as "Partial pruning of spring shoot"


Another shoots


This time, I cut all the way to half or less or more of last year growth shoot A. I call it as " partial pruning of last year shoot"


I tested this kind of pruning on my young pines and have been performing "partial pruning" for either spring or last year shoots in about 4 years with excellent results. It produces a lot of new shoots emerging below the cut area: almost every needle bundles left at that shoot would emerging the new buds and become shoot eventually. I really like this technique because I have a ton of shoots to be chosen later on. It helps me to build up the branchlet system fast. I want to share this fantastic pruning to whoever growing a young pine for bonsai.

To get a good response, the young healthy tree is a must. I will not do partial pruning on established tree.

These below pictures shows the result from partial pruning of spring shoot. The arrow is pointed to the cut end of spring shoot via partial pruning 2 years ago. There are 5 shoots emerged from that spring shoot after pruning.


Good luck to all of you who are trying to train the black pine seedlings.
Thụ Thoại

 

[Colorado]

Great information, I always appreciate your posts!

 

[bonhe]

Great information, I always appreciate your posts!

Thanks
Thụ Thoại

 

[Potato with leaves]

How do you determine which method you are using? e.g. when do you "partially prune the spring shoot" vs. "partially prune last year's shoot"?

 

[GGB]

The timing on me seeing this is very coincidental. I just preformed a "partial pruning on spring shoots" yesterday. I was having trouble finding information about any such technique online so I just went for it. Glad you have had good results in the past

 

[bonhe]

How do you determine which method you are using? e.g. when do you "partially prune the spring shoot" vs. "partially prune last year's shoot"?

Depending on my goal for that branch.
- Partial pruning of spring shoot: I want to have this branch get longer and more branchlets at the same time
- Partial pruning of last year's shoot: when the last year's shoot is too long for design (I want to get shorter internodal interval)
Hope this help.

The timing on me seeing this is very coincidental. I just preformed a "partial pruning on spring shoots" yesterday. I was having trouble finding information about any such technique online so I just went for it. Glad you have had good results in the past

Haha. It is good to know you found out another way to prune the black pine. Yeah, we cannot find any where on the internet talking about this method except if you can read Vietnamese language! (I have been posting this kind of pruning in Vietnamese bonsai groups for a few years). You will be amazed with the result. Oh, can you tell me why you decided to do partial pruning of the spring shoots ? Thanks
Thụ Thoại

 

[dacoontz]

Is this technique discussing pruning last years growth and not this years which is often referred to as decandling?

 

[GGB]

. Oh, can you tell me why you decided to do partial pruning of the spring shoots ? Thanks
Thụ Thoại

Sure, my reasoning was this… I had just purchased the pine which had moderate vigor and had clearly been drastically pruned the year before. So all of the new buds (or future branches) were set last year. Unfortunately this years buds were allowed to grow to a point where they were too long and unbranched to make nice primary branches. I didn’t want to fully decandle this year for three reasons, the first was that there were very few old needles left on the tree, many buds emerged from old wood and only had 2 to 4 sets of tiny needles. And the second reason was that I didn’t know the trees history, so all of this was just a guess. And the third reason was that it’s a little bit late for a decandling in my climate on a medium sized tree. And I want to build vigor still but need to keep foliage close.
I figured partial decandling would keep a good amount of needles on the new tree while getting branch division where I needed it, closer to the trunk, but not as close as it would have been if I fully decandled it. Which would have been millimeters from the trunk, because of last years trunk chopping . Unfortunately I have no before pictures, only how the tree looks now

 

[bonhe]

Is this technique discussing pruning last years growth and not this years which is often referred to as decandling?

Thanks for clarifying. This topic for this and last season shoot pruning. I don’t use decandling because it means remove the candles, not the shoots. Hope it help.

Sure, my reasoning was this… I had just purchased the pine which had moderate vigor and had clearly been drastically pruned the year before. So all of the new buds (or future branches) were set last year. Unfortunately this years buds were allowed to grow to a point where they were too long and unbranched to make nice primary branches. I didn’t want to fully decandle this year for three reasons, the first was that there were very few old needles left on the tree, many buds emerged from old wood and only had 2 to 4 sets of tiny needles. And the second reason was that I didn’t know the trees history, so all of this was just a guess. And the third reason was that it’s a little bit late for a decandling in my climate on a medium sized tree. And I want to build vigor still but need to keep foliage close.
I figured partial decandling would keep a good amount of needles on the new tree while getting branch division where I needed it, closer to the trunk, but not as close as it would have been if I fully decandled it. Which would have been millimeters from the trunk, because of last years trunk chopping . Unfortunately I have no before pictures, only how the tree looks now

Thank you very much for your explanation. It is absolutely right. You are treating the tree according to its health and your goal. You did not prune the tree without thinking!

Regarding to timing of partial pruning of Spring shoots, if I do it as soon as the young needles becomes stiff and dark green, I will get a lot of back bud emerging from all of needle bundles left at these shoots. If I do it around September, it will just give me a few buds emerging from where I cut. So, timing is important for partial pruning of spring shoots.
Thụ Thoại

 

[SexyGArdener]

(I have been posting this kind of pruning in Vietnamese bonsai groups for a few years).

Where is this forum, sir? I’m always looking for more knowledge sources regardless of language because translation is possible.

 

[bonhe]

Where is this forum, sir? I’m always looking for more knowledge sources regardless of language because translation is possible.

Thanks for interesting in it.
I hope bonsainut is ok to let me to post the link here. Greg, if you doesn’t like it, please delete it. Thanks Greg.

it is actually FB group of Vietnamese Conifer Bonsai Club. Here is the link

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

Or my FB to which I have been posting more information

Bonhe Hoang

Bonhe Hoang is on Facebook. Join Facebook to connect with Bonhe Hoang and others you may know. Facebook gives people the power to share and makes the world more open and connected.

www.facebook.com

Thụ Thoại

 

[Srt8madness]

I have a question about this statement

"To get a good response, the young healthy tree is a must. I will not do partial pruning on established tree."

Does this mean you only do complete pruning on established tree? What about an established tree you want to increase ramification on?

 

[Maiden69]

@bonhe do you have pictures of what the shoots look like right now? I was watching Mirai stream where he explains this technique, but he recommends it be done in mid August to early September, he said that if you cut the shoot in the middle in June the tree will eventually push new buds from its base instead of the needles. But I think it is because of the amount of sun and heat he gets in Oregon... You are in a zone 11, so your trees have an amazingly long growing season, I'm in an 8b, but our winters are mild, and our growing season is longer than Mirai's. I plan on doing this work next year on some of my pines to start developing shoots lower in the trunk to prepare them for sacrifice removal. Ryan did said that in long growing seasons area you can get 3 flushes instead of 2... I want to try this out with at least one of my pines.

 

[bonhe]

I have a question about this statement

"To get a good response, the young healthy tree is a must. I will not do partial pruning on established tree."

Does this mean you only do complete pruning on established tree? What about an established tree you want to increase ramification on?

Thanks for asking. Let me clarify this. You actually can do partial pruning of spring shoot on established tree in mid June, but should not do it in mid- September as young tree. It you do that late, you may get long internodal interval and may not get more than one bud below the pruned site (means no new shoot coming from the needle bundles as you do at mid June)
Thụ Thoại

 

[bonhe]

@bonhe do you have pictures of what the shoots look like right now? I was watching Mirai stream where he explains this technique, but he recommends it be done in mid August to early September, he said that if you cut the shoot in the middle in June the tree will eventually push new buds from its base instead of the needles. But I think it is because of the amount of sun and heat he gets in Oregon... You are in a zone 11, so your trees have an amazingly long growing season, I'm in an 8b, but our winters are mild, and our growing season is longer than Mirai's. I plan on doing this work next year on some of my pines to start developing shoots lower in the trunk to prepare them for sacrifice removal. Ryan did said that in long growing seasons area you can get 3 flushes instead of 2... I want to try this out with at least one of my pines.

Thanks for information. In my area, partial pruning of spring shoots will give a ton of new shoots from needle bundles below the pruned site if I perform the task in mid June. If I perform it in mid September, I will not get new shoots from needle bundles.

All my pines are too crowed at this time. I should thin them out soon. I found these 2 branches which had partial pruning of spring shoots in mid June.
There are 4 news summer shoots coming out of needle bundles below the pruned site.



And this branch has 5 summer shoots coming out from needle bundles .


Thụ Thoại

 

[Maiden69]

@bonhe thank you so much!

 

[bonhe]

@bonhe thank you so much!

You are very welcome!
Thụ Thoại

 

[bonhe]

@bonhe thank you so much!

While I was working on this KBP this morning, I found some things to answer your question.


These 2 branchlets were spring shoots and were partially pruned in mid June 2021.


One has 6 shoots emerged from every needle bundles below the cut (red areow)


Another one has 4 shoots


These two Summer shoots are too long for design .


Instead of removing the old needles from the previous growth season (in yellow circle), I leave them alone



Next June, I will partially prune these 2 at arrow pointing


Thụ Thoại

 

[GeorgeAlexander]

I decide to post this topic today, because this time is critical time for black pine training in my area!
I like to summarize some terminology: when spring growth begins, buds become the candles with tiny short needles. Then candles elongate with needles getting long, they become shoots. In this topic, I will talk about shoot cutting which is very important to train the pine into bonsai. Depending on the age of the tree (young or old), health (weak or strong), the timing for shoot pruning is different. In my area, mid-June is best time to do this work for established / healthy trees. Mid -September is best time to do shoot pruning for young/weak trees.

Many people already know how to prune the shoot: cut all the way to the border of the previous growth season and this season. I call it as " Complete pruning of spring shoot". Please see pictures.
This is Spring shoot
View attachment 443006

It is cut all the way to its base. This cut, I name it as "complete pruning of spring shoot"
View attachment 443010


A is the previous year growth shoot. B is this spring growth shoot.
View attachment 443011

Now I am talking about another kind of pruning. Instead of cutting all the way to the base of spring shoot, I cut half, or more or less of it. This cut, I name is as "Partial pruning of spring shoot"
View attachment 443013

Another shoots
View attachment 443014 View attachment 443015

This time, I cut all the way to half or less or more of last year growth shoot A. I call it as " partial pruning of last year shoot"
View attachment 443016

I tested this kind of pruning on my young pines and have been performing "partial pruning" for either spring or last year shoots in about 4 years with excellent results. It produces a lot of new shoots emerging below the cut area: almost every needle bundles left at that shoot would emerging the new buds and become shoot eventually. I really like this technique because I have a ton of shoots to be chosen later on. It helps me to build up the branchlet system fast. I want to share this fantastic pruning to whoever growing a young pine for bonsai.

To get a good response, the young healthy tree is a must. I will not do partial pruning on established tree.

These below pictures shows the result from partial pruning of spring shoot. The arrow is pointed to the cut end of spring shoot via partial pruning 2 years ago. There are 5 shoots emerged from that spring shoot after pruning.
View attachment 443017 View attachment 443018

Good luck to all of you who are trying to train the black pine seedlings.
Thụ Thoại

Can you cut last years extension shoot in spring? I have a few extensions from last year with a new bud on the end of each which hasn’t opened yet.