Soapy Insect Repellent

[Stan Kengai]

You know, I have heard this. However, the Palmolive I have always used is antibacterial. I have never had a problem. I cannot say about other antibacterial brands though. I have been using the palmolive for about 5 years.

One thing that I would like to mention is that I always protect the soil. I usually wrap a plastic bag around the pot and over the soil when I spray. Also, when I shower the tree off the next day. I also wrap a bag around the soil once again to prevent the solution from washing off into the soil.

Rob

Rob, the problem with this is that there aren't just beneficial bacteria in the rhizosphere, but also in the phyllosphere. And by killing all of the bacteria on your plant's surfaces, you're throwing off the balance of nature, potentially opening it up for the nasties to take over.

 

[october]

Rob, the problem with this is that there aren't just beneficial bacteria in the rhizosphere, but also in the phyllosphere. And by killing all of the bacteria on your plant's surfaces, you're throwing off the balance of nature, potentially opening it up for the nasties to take over.

That does make sense.. However, keep in mind we are spraying down the tree with a diluted alcohol solution as well. Although somewhat different properties. We can say don't use antibacterial, yet, on the other hand, we are using alcohol which kills many different bacteria and the like.

I might start ueing the ivory again this upcoming season. I do use both. I wish that juniper scale would move out of the area..lol... Then, I wouldn't need anything.

Rob

 

[jk_lewis]

http://www.todayshomeowner.com/how-to-make-homemade-insecticidal-soap-for-plants/

 

[october]

Good guidelines. The original recipe from Carl did say dishwashing detergent. However, I never used anything that was considered harsh. Hence, my use of Palmolive and Ivory over the last 5-6 years.

I might just stick with the Ivory this upcoming season.

Rob

 

[Bradeen]

Good guidelines. The original recipe from Carl did say dishwashing detergent. However, I never used anything that was considered harsh. Hence, my use of Palmolive and Ivory over the last 5-6 years.
I might just stick with the Ivory this upcoming season.
Rob

I am agree with rom and happy with your thinking about this process..Testimonials

 

[jk_lewis]

Is detergent OK to use? I was going to use Dawn dishwashing detergent but didn't know whether it's safe for
plants or not.

NO! Too many other chemicals in detergent.

 

[Nuffel]

Old topic, but I've got some questions:

If I'm correct it's the soap that kills.
Water is used as a medium so we can spray the soap.

1) Why oil? Is it necessary?
Is it for better sticking or longer lasting?

2) Why alcohol?
I can't find any reason for that.

3) Doesn't alcohol alone also kills pests?
But maybe the concentration needed is too high and also harmfull for our bonsai?

Thank you guys

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Old topic, but I've got some questions:

If I'm correct it's the soap that kills.
Water is used as a medium so we can spray the soap.

1) Why oil? Is it necessary?
Is it for better sticking or longer lasting?

2) Why alcohol?
I can't find any reason for that.

3) Doesn't alcohol alone also kills pests?
But maybe the concentration needed is too high and also harmfull for our bonsai?

Thank you guys

I think this method has been somewhat abandoned and replaced with:
1 liter of water.
1 teaspoon of neem oil.
5 drops of dishwashing detergent.
Shake and spray every 3 weeks.

I think the oil was meant to suffocate scale, which I haven't found it doing personally. Oil also dissolves the cuticle wax, making plants vulnerable to sunlight, it can also block the stomata preventing rhe plant from breathing.
The alcohol was used to kill bugs and eggs by exposure.
Alcohol kan kill pests and it can hurt your plant in various ways. A bunch of people use specifically isopropyl alcohol at a 40-70% mix, with water.

I prefer using stuff that works or just doing nothing at all. The whole alcohol, soap, oil method never worked for me and only frustrated me, after a while it started hurting my plants too.
So I do neem oil for aphids and minor stuff, and for mealy bugs and scale I use systemic insecticides - but that was one time when things got out of control. A change of location (more sun, fewer bugs) can do a great deal too.

 

[Nuffel]

I think this method has been somewhat abandoned and replaced with:
1 liter of water.
1 teaspoon of neem oil.
5 drops of dishwashing detergent.
Shake and spray every 3 weeks.

I think the oil was meant to suffocate scale, which I haven't found it doing personally. Oil also dissolves the cuticle wax, making plants vulnerable to sunlight, it can also block the stomata preventing rhe plant from breathing.
The alcohol was used to kill bugs and eggs by exposure.
Alcohol kan kill pests and it can hurt your plant in various ways. A bunch of people use specifically isopropyl alcohol at a 40-70% mix, with water.

I prefer using stuff that works or just doing nothing at all. The whole alcohol, soap, oil method never worked for me and only frustrated me, after a while it started hurting my plants too.
So I do neem oil for aphids and minor stuff, and for mealy bugs and scale I use systemic insecticides - but that was one time when things got out of control. A change of location (more sun, fewer bugs) can do a great deal too.

Thank you very much for this explanation @Wires_Guy_wires.

How often and in what concentration do you use the neem oil?
You are in the Benelux like me, what systemics are available to us? I thought everything was banned?
Do you have a link to order? Pm is fine if you prefer that.

Thanks a lot

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Thank you very much for this explanation @Wires_Guy_wires.

How often and in what concentration do you use the neem oil?
You are in the Benelux like me, what systemics are available to us? I thought everything was banned?
Do you have a link to order? Pm is fine if you prefer that.

Thanks a lot

As I said, one teaspoon of neem oil per liter of water, I prefer the cold pressed neem oil. It goes solid after a while, but putting it in hot water will make it liquid again. I use dishwashing soap per drop, and keep adding an extra drop until all the oily pearls on top of the water disappear, that takes some mixing and shaking though. Too much soap will hurt your plants, as will too much oil. I use this in case of a problematic outbreak, a few bugs don't hurt. But a whole lot.. That's when I pull out the neem oil. One full application every 21 days, first application to kill the bugs themselves, the second application to kill whatever survived and all the hatched eggs.
Usually two or three treatments do the trick and I'm bug free for the rest of the year.

Belgium is pretty easy on the systemics, I bought Compo karate garden and KB multisect from a Belgian webstore. But only use this stuf when you have absolutely no other options left. Mealy bugs are the only bug that are resistant to "less dangerous" stuff like pyrethrins or neonicotinoids. Most scales can be treated with pyrethrins, which are also pretty bad for insects and humans, but less so than the systemic insecticides.
Read the label well and make sure you take the proper precautions. These things are not to be used carelessly.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

I think this method has been somewhat abandoned and replaced with:
1 liter of water.
1 teaspoon of neem oil.
5 drops of dishwashing detergent.
Shake and spray every 3 weeks.

I think the oil was meant to suffocate scale, which I haven't found it doing personally. Oil also dissolves the cuticle wax, making plants vulnerable to sunlight, it can also block the stomata preventing rhe plant from breathing.
The alcohol was used to kill bugs and eggs by exposure.
Alcohol kan kill pests and it can hurt your plant in various ways. A bunch of people use specifically isopropyl alcohol at a 40-70% mix, with water.

I prefer using stuff that works or just doing nothing at all. The whole alcohol, soap, oil method never worked for me and only frustrated me, after a while it started hurting my plants too.
So I do neem oil for aphids and minor stuff, and for mealy bugs and scale I use systemic insecticides - but that was one time when things got out of control. A change of location (more sun, fewer bugs) can do a great deal too.

Do you remember what plants the soap solution harmed? Earlier in this thread people were naming what plants neem oil was harming.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Do you remember what plants the soap solution harmed? Earlier in this thread people were naming what plants neem oil was harming.

Soap and oil was hurting my broadleaf plants the most. Conifers were hurt too.
I haven't had issues with neem oil myself, but thin leaved plants like cannabis, tomatoes, lettuce, strawberries and probably plants like willows too, can get a leaf burn if there's either too much oil or too much soap in there.
We have to keep in mind that it's not the neem oil itself that's serving as an insect repellent, but the component azadirachtin that's present in the oil.
The neemoil in emulsion (dissolved through soap binding) should form just a thin film, not a goopy layer.
Putting the treated plants in the shade for a couple days (3-5) can help prevent problems.
But if you're not sure, try a couple leaves and see what happens.

 

[Cajunrider]

Old topic, but I've got some questions:

If I'm correct it's the soap that kills.
Water is used as a medium so we can spray the soap.

1) Why oil? Is it necessary?
Is it for better sticking or longer lasting?

2) Why alcohol?
I can't find any reason for that.

3) Doesn't alcohol alone also kills pests?
But maybe the concentration needed is too high and also harmfull for our bonsai?

Thank you guys

Let take our understanding of this just a tiny bit deeper.
For soap or detergent: Insects have a tracheal respiratory system in which oxygen and carbon dioxide travel primarily through air-filled tubes called tracheae. The soap causes bubbles to form across the trachea, prohibiting respiration in insects and choke them to death. For this reason, certain detergents which are designed to be bubbleless will not work in this manner.
For oil it is slightly different, the oil goes into the trachea and certain oils produce vapors that either interfere with respiration or even poison the insects.
For alcohol, the alcohol acts as solvent and dissolves some of the exoskeleton and also dehydrates the insects, killing them.
Mixing soap/dish detergent with alcohol and oil is simply producing a spray with multiple pathways to kill,

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

Soap and oil was hurting my broadleaf plants the most. Conifers were hurt too.
I haven't had issues with neem oil myself, but thin leaved plants like cannabis, tomatoes, lettuce, strawberries and probably plants like willows too, can get a leaf burn if there's either too much oil or too much soap in there.
We have to keep in mind that it's not the neem oil itself that's serving as an insect repellent, but the component azadirachtin that's present in the oil.
The neemoil in emulsion (dissolved through soap binding) should form just a thin film, not a goopy layer.
Putting the treated plants in the shade for a couple days (3-5) can help prevent problems.
But if you're not sure, try a couple leaves and see what happens.

Okay thanks. I've been using the soap/oil/alcohol solution for 15+ years in my vegetable garden/ house plants & haven't noticed any issues. I was wondering if it would have adverse affects on Trees because I've been spraying tropicals too.

Eyes peeled.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Okay thanks. I've been using the soap/oil/alcohol solution for 15+ years in my vegetable garden/ house plants & haven't noticed any issues. I was wondering if it would have adverse affects on Trees because I've been spraying tropicals too.

Eyes peeled.

Then you're doing it right! There's a bunch of people who have difficulties with that and kill their plants that way. That's why I generally recommend to not use that type of mixture.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

NO MORE APHIDS !!!..... or SCALE !!!

It's the time of year again for the pesties. I've been regularly recommending this product in various threads here when I see them. I'm putting this one here in General Discussion and then I can just link it when someone is having a bug problem. I started using this 3 years ago. Since that...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

NO MORE APHIDS !!!..... or SCALE !!!

It's the time of year again for the pesties. I've been regularly recommending this product in various threads here when I see them. I'm putting this one here in General Discussion and then I can just link it when someone is having a bug problem. I started using this 3 years ago. Since that...

www.bonsainut.com

I'm going to give this a try. The aphids love the two Barbados cherry trees I have. Get out in front of it this year instead of reacting afterwards.