Source for Humic/Fulvic acid

milehigh_7

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Hey everyone I just thought I would share a possible source I have located. I have not purchased anything from them yet but I intend to. I sent them an email regarding a customer service issue and received a reply in less than 24 hours. Oh yea free shipping for online orders.

This link for California and Oregon:
http://www.bioag.com/oregonorderpage.html

This link for everywhere else:
http://www.bioag.com/allotherstates.html

Evidently Cali and Oregon have laws regarding labeling of humic substances that prevent separating the terms "humic" and "fulvic".

BTW: On the links tab they have a link to the International Humic Substance Society. If you go to that site an American researcher has provided a nice bibliography for your reading pleasure if you are into the science of humic substances:

http://ihss.gatech.edu/ihss2/documents/HumicLitReview2006.pdf

Enjoy!
 

DaveV

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Look into this product!

The company is GroPower out of California. They make planting tablets that are wonderful. 20%Umic Acid. I get the 12 mo. release tables. I think Al (Smoke) uses them too. What have been your thoughts on this product Al?
 

FrankP999

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I recently bought some of those tabs. Too soon to see any results but the tabs are breaking down fairly quickly so I do not see how they will last a year. I could not find a place to order them so I bought mine directly from the company.

Frank
 

FrankP999

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I would have thought this post would get Smoke's attention. I am new to using humic acid and anxious to hear results from others.

Frank
 

milehigh_7

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Indeed, I also thought Smoke would chime in. He is the without question the expert on this stuff with bonsai. I owe any knowledge I may have to him as I would have never began reading up on them without him kindly sharing his experinece.

However, if you take a look at that biblio you will see that there is much science behind their use. Forget anecdotal experience, there has been a great deal of research done with very strong evidence to the efficacy of humic substances.
 

rockm

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"Forget anecdotal experience, there has been a great deal of research done with very strong evidence to the efficacy of humic substances."

I've tried humic acid in a number of forms, including Roots 2 (backed by Michael Persiano) and a couple of other forms. Haven't found it makes that much of a difference one way or the other. If you understand the basic concepts of bonsai and are working with healthy material, additives aren't necessary. They can also be detrimental if used incorrectly or in excessive amounts.

This stuff also ain't going to be a magic elixir that will transform your trees, nor will it make up for less than ideal care and soil...It might help a bit, it might not...it also tends to be expensive.
 

milehigh_7

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"Forget anecdotal experience, there has been a great deal of research done with very strong evidence to the efficacy of humic substances."

I've tried humic acid in a number of forms, including Roots 2 (backed by Michael Persiano) and a couple of other forms. Haven't found it makes that much of a difference one way or the other. If you understand the basic concepts of bonsai and are working with healthy material, additives aren't necessary. They can also be detrimental if used incorrectly or in excessive amounts.

This stuff also ain't going to be a magic elixir that will transform your trees, nor will it make up for less than ideal care and soil...It might help a bit, it might not...it also tends to be expensive.
As I am the least of the bonsai practitioners on this site, I won't be arguing with you. However, science is science and that I do understand. I will let Smoke argue the bonsai side of it with you.

Maybe this is typical of a pine in Las Vegas, maybe it is not but here is one year's growth (year 2-3 from seed) of a p.halepensis. Feed one week, humic/fulvic the next. BTW: $15 for nearly two years worth is not a bad price to pay.
 

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ghues

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For interests sake I thought I'd post this article I found on the subject. I think it takes into account Rockm's point on ideal care and soil....while showing the positive aspects/merrits of using it? I've seen first hand how some soil types are so inorganic that the conifer trees have lime green foliage and over a short period of time with the application of humic acid they turned a darker healthier colour.

Benefits of Humic Acid as a Soil Conditioner
Understanding the benefits of humic acid on soil and plants. By Casey Coke Published: 9/13/2008


Humic Acid is the commercial term often used to refer to the combined humic and fulvic acid content found in naturally occurring decomposed plant and animal residues. The most bio-chemically active humic acid is derived from Leonardite coal, which consists of humified animal and plant substances dating back thousands of years.

Humic acid is effective at improving the quality of all types of soils, especially clay and sandy soils and organically deficient soils. The introduction of humic acid to clay or other compacted soils, results in the break-up of these soils allowing for greater water and root penetration. In sandy soils, humic acid adds vital organic material back into the soil, which allows for improved water retention and deeper root development, both of which are lacking on sandy soils.

Humic acid also plays a critical role in the ability of the plants to uptake nutrients. Humic acid has the ability to unlock nutrients in the soil that would otherwise be unavailable to the plant, while also providing the transport mechanism making these nutrients readily available. On a microbial level, humic acid stimulates the beneficial activities of naturally occurring soil microbes. These soil microbes are responsible for solubilizing minerals and nutrients so that they can then be stored by the humic acid and in turn be made available to the plant. Soil microbes are also responsible for the continued production of humus in the soil and the improvement of the soil structure.

With all of the talk of nutrients and humic acid, it could be easy to get it confused with a fertilizer. Humic acid is not a traditional fertilizer, as it does not directly provide nutrients for the plant. However, it should be used as a complement to help improve the fertilizer use and in the long run reduce the need for constant fertilization.

Cheers G
 
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Tachigi

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Maybe this is typical of a pine in Las Vegas, maybe it is not but here is one year's growth (year 2-3 from seed) of a p.halepensis. Feed one week, humic/fulvic the next. BTW: $15 for nearly two years worth is not a bad price to pay.
Now that is optimal growth...a very healthy little pine. I won't say humic acid produced those results, but I will say that whatever your doing...your doing it right!
 

milehigh_7

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Now that is optimal growth...a very healthy little pine. I won't say humic acid produced those results, but I will say that whatever your doing...your doing it right!
Thanks Tom! I do believe you made my day!:D

I am trying to learn and you guys are awesome teachers.
 

Smoke

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Don't worry I am here. I read each day and am pleased with your results.

Like a mother bird all I can do is provide some experience, and watch what comes from it. You will all find your own path. It needs no reinforcing from me.

It is easy to obtain and the results can be seen with regular use. It's as easy as that!

Al
 

milehigh_7

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Don't worry I am here. I read each day and am pleased with your results.

Like a mother bird all I can do is provide some experience, and watch what comes from it. You will all find your own path. It needs no reinforcing from me.

It is easy to obtain and the results can be seen with regular use. It's as easy as that!

Al
Al you crack me up! In all honesty thanks for the tutorials and progressions that you post. I have learned a great deal.

BTW everyone:

This thread was only intended to provide a possible source for a product I use. It can be somewhat hard to find in some places.
 

grog

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Totally silly but the biggest problem I'm having is working myself into walking into a headshop for the goods. In my area I know all the local owners by name but I don't want to rekindle past relation/dealing/stuff. A prolific online dealer would be fantabulous.
 

milehigh_7

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Totally silly but the biggest problem I'm having is working myself into walking into a headshop for the goods. In my area I know all the local owners by name but I don't want to rekindle past relation/dealing/stuff. A prolific online dealer would be fantabulous.
The initial link I posted is not only an online seller but boasts free shipping. Hard to beat.
 

Smoke

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Totally silly but the biggest problem I'm having is working myself into walking into a headshop for the goods. In my area I know all the local owners by name but I don't want to rekindle past relation/dealing/stuff. A prolific online dealer would be fantabulous.
You don't need a head shop to get this stuff. Either big box store will have it in the way of at least a product or two combining humic acid and fertilizer. Big box meaning Lowes or Home Depot. A good general purpose nursery will also carry many product that contain the addition of humic acid.

The Kellogs line
The Master Gardener line
Good Earth line
...and just released

The Fox Farms line of fertilizers.

If you can not lay your hands on at least one of these brands, then you are probably having trouble finding soil components as well as good pots and plant material. Bottom line, you live in the boonies and bonsai will always be a problem.

Anyone not finding this stuff send me a PM with your town and state and I will find a nursery or place that has it within 100 miles.
 

rockm

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"As I am the least of the bonsai practitioners on this site, I won't be arguing with you. However, science is science and that I do understand. I will let Smoke argue the bonsai side of it with you.

Maybe this is typical of a pine in Las Vegas, maybe it is not but here is one year's growth (year 2-3 from seed) of a p.halepensis. Feed one week, humic/fulvic the next. BTW: $15 for nearly two years worth is not a bad price to pay."

One year's growth on a seedling? Evidence of a miracle? I have a piece of toast with the Virgin Mary on it that produces great growth results if you leave it next to the tree overnight. It's only $15 on ebay :D

Seriously, like I've said, I've tried this stuff. Can't really say if it helped or not. BTW, if you've got more than one small tree and have 30-40 larger trees, you'd probably have to by a couple of gallons to use on them-- two gallons of the stuff listed costs $130...a pretty sizeable batch of great bonsai soil that could be made for the same money and produce equal or better results.
 

ghues

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Local Source - In your back yard/forest

Hey folks,
I know that the following may not apply to some folks or some trees BUT.........
Have you thought about or tried getting it (Humic acid) from the very forests around you or where you collect your yamadori?
We are blessed in the PNW in regards to having a variety of forest floors (other names = humus, duff, organic horizons) and the one thing we do during our collecting trips is to collect trees with as much forest floor (which is the best humic acid) that we can.
Recently I've been bringing in and potting up Yamadori Hm (from their two year rest period in the recovery beds) and the humus has become very biologically active and is considerably more broken down than when it was collected and falls apart easily. I make sure to incorporate an amount into the soil mix and keep the rest (sifted) for muck and other soil mixes.
I believe that incorporating it back into the soil mix gives the trees the necessary "natural compost" which is extracted from its original forests and also provides a source of mycelium activitiy.

Cheers G
 

bwaynef

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Rock, I purchased the 100g package for $12 early last year. I've got close to half of it left, and thats with a pretty consistent application of the stuff. A little goes a LONG way. Its really not expensive.
 
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