Steps for collecting deciduous trees

[Cajunrider]

I had a chance to discuss tree collection with a guy who did that for a living. He and his crew used to collect hundreds of deciduous trees at a time for bonsai. I asked him what are the critical steps for collecting tropical trees and the ones below is what he told me.
1. Keep the tree in the shade, cover with tarp or towels or straws.
2. If possible put cut paste or wood glue on major root cuts.
3. Don't be impatient and pot the trees. Wait until major root cuts are dried before potting. This can take 1 to 14 days.
4. Pot the tree in 50/50 rice hulls and coco husk and keep it covered and in the shade. Water sparingly to just avoid having the mix bone dry. Prevent water loss but don't try to get the tree to soak in any water.
5. Slowly introduce the tree to sunlight after it has budded.

I'm guilty of being impatient a lot of time. He told me a lot of people plant trees before the root cuts dry out and close the water flow. Once potted those roots often rot and kill the trees.

Now you guys tell me if this guy is doing it wrong. He was collecting trees in the tropics so things may be different than here in the US. He told me he has collected tens of thousands of trees either in the wild or in root stock farms. Some were for bonsai, some were citrus, carambola, tamarind, ochna, mango root stock that they later graft on more desirable cultivars.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

I had a chance to discuss tree collection with a guy who did that for a living. He and his crew used to collect hundreds of deciduous trees at a time for bonsai. I asked him what are the critical steps for collecting tropical trees and the ones below is what he told me.
1. Keep the tree in the shade, cover with tarp or towels or straws.
2. If possible put cut paste or wood glue on major root cuts.
3. Don't be impatient and pot the trees. Wait until major root cuts are dried before potting. This can take 1 to 14 days.
4. Pot the tree in 50/50 rice hulls and coco husk and keep it covered and in the shade. Water sparingly to just avoid having the mix bone dry. Prevent water loss but don't try to get the tree to soak in any water.
5. Slowly introduce the tree to sunlight after it has budded.

I'm guilty of being impatient a lot of time. He told me a lot of people plant trees before the root cuts dry out and close the water flow. Once potted those roots often rot and kill the trees.

Now you guys tell me if this guy is doing it wrong. He was collecting trees in the tropics so things may be different than here in the US. He told me he has collected tens of thousands of trees either in the wild or in root stock farms. Some were for bonsai, some were citrus, carambola, tamarind, ochna, mango root stock that they later graft on more desirable cultivars.

I have no idea about tropicals, but letting the roots on deciduous dry out like that will surely kill any fine roots you’re trying to keep, I would think.

 

[rockm]

I would use advice from a guy collecting in the tropics seriously to collecting temperate zone trees. That part about letting the root cuts dry out is a death sentence for trees here. I also question advice on using cut paste on roots. Most of the regenerated roots on temperate trees I have collected sprout from near the cut, paste would interfere with that. Planting the tree in bonsai soil directly after collection for deciduous trees is common practice. That soil allows O2 exchange, but keep roots moist--which would eliminate the need for cut paste underground.

 

[Cajunrider]

I have no idea about tropicals, but letting the roots on deciduous dry out like that will surely kill any fine roots you’re trying to keep, I would think.

This is why I made the post. I have serious doubts on some of the steps. However, he said it over and over to me: "Keep it from the heat and the sun but let the cuts dry or the root will rot. The small roots will live if there is no wind and sun on them. It's contrary to what people usually think." He showed me pictures of truck loads of root stocks that's just covered with tarp and pictures of his worker just putting a tiny bit of wood glue on the big root cuts.

I need to add that the trunk of the trees he collected were often 3+" in diameter. There were no little ones that I can see in those pictures he showed me.
Come to think about, where he was collecting the trees, the humidity was constantly high. Here in the temperate zone the air is a lot dryer so yeah those fine roots would dry out and die quickly if not protected.

 

[Cajunrider]

I have no idea about tropicals, but letting the roots on deciduous dry out like that will surely kill any fine roots you’re trying to keep, I would think.

Hey Mike,
Your signature line makes me think. Professional human? You get paid to be alive? How do I get in on that gig?

 

[Mike Hennigan]

This is why I made the post. I have serious doubts on some of the steps. However, he said it over and over to me: "Keep it from the heat and the sun but let the cuts dry or the root will rot. The small roots will live if there is no wind and sun on them. It's contrary to what people usually think." He showed me pictures of truck loads of root stocks that's just covered with tarp and pictures of his worker just putting a tiny bit of wood glue on the big root cuts.

I need to add that the trunk of the trees he collected were often 3+" in diameter. There were no little ones that I can see in those pictures he showed me.

Yea for sure. Not sure how much translates to temperate deciduous.

In terms of avoiding root rot, the biggest things that will help are 1. Don’t overpot. A lot of times people think they need to put a collected tree in a large container to help it recover. But in reality doesn’t have many roots at this point, and because there aren’t enough roots to occupy all that soil, the soil stays too wet and contributes to rot.

2. Pot in a mix with high air retention. The hawthorns I collect are more challenging than something like an elm and usually have almost no feeder roots. I’ve found, so far, that I have had great success with potting them in a mix that is about 80% perlite. Adding extra pumice to a standard mix could probably help too. This lets me water pretty frequently at first without as much danger of overwatering. His rice hull mix sounds pretty air retentive.

3. Which leads me to my next point, don’t overwater, which he touched on. Controlling the amount air and water in your soil really is the biggest key to getting healthy roots growing.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

Hey Mike,
Your signature line makes me think. Professional human? You get paid to be alive? How do I get in on that gig?

lol, no, maybe I’m an amateur human after all ?.

 

[rockm]

I would use advice from a guy collecting in the tropics seriously to collecting temperate zone trees. That part about letting the root cuts dry out is a death sentence for trees here. I also question advice on using cut paste on roots. Most of the regenerated roots on temperate trees I have collected sprout from near the cut, paste would interfere with that. Planting the tree in bonsai soil directly after collection for deciduous trees is common practice. That soil allows O2 exchange, but keep roots moist--which would eliminate the need for cut paste underground.

I meant to say "wouldn't" use advice...

 

[rockm]

This is why I made the post. I have serious doubts on some of the steps. However, he said it over and over to me: "Keep it from the heat and the sun but let the cuts dry or the root will rot. The small roots will live if there is no wind and sun on them. It's contrary to what people usually think." He showed me pictures of truck loads of root stocks that's just covered with tarp and pictures of his worker just putting a tiny bit of wood glue on the big root cuts.

I need to add that the trunk of the trees he collected were often 3+" in diameter. There were no little ones that I can see in those pictures he showed me.
Come to think about, where he was collecting the trees, the humidity was constantly high. Here in the temperate zone the air is a lot dryer so yeah those fine roots would dry out and die quickly if not protected.

Those fine roots might live in the humid wind in the tropics, but here where humidity levels can be desert-level some days, especially in colder early spring, leaving hair roots out in the wind for days will kill them off. It's not "contrary to what people think" it is silly to think that collection conditions are alike globally. If he's collecting truck loads of material, he's probably losing a truckload of it. Such volume speaks to me of indifference and greed BTW. Such wanton, large scale collection is not a good thing...

 

[Cajunrider]

Those fine roots might live in the humid wind in the tropics, but here where humidity levels can be desert-level some days, especially in colder early spring, leaving hair roots out in the wind for days will kill them off. It's not "contrary to what people think" it is silly to think that collection conditions are alike globally. If he's collecting truck loads of material, he's probably losing a truckload of it. Such volume speaks to me of indifference and greed BTW. Such wanton, large scale collection is not a good thing...

I'm not condoning what he did just reporting what I heard. He did say that most of the time the actions were in "root stock" farms where people planted seedlings of trees to be collected when they get bigger. I asked him his success rate and he claimed 90%. He had strong incentive to keep them alive because he got paid by the trees that lived while he paid for each tree he dug up.

It is interesting to note that over there, the common practice is to get a huge root stock and then do final grafting for desired cultivar and sell the tree a few months later.

 

[rockm]

I'm not condoning what he did just reporting what I heard. He did say that most of the time the actions were in "root stock" farms where people planted seedlings of trees to be collected when they get bigger. I asked him his success rate and he claimed 90%. He had strong incentive to keep them alive because he got paid by the trees that lived while he paid for each tree he dug up.

It is interesting to note that over there, the common practice is to get a huge root stock and then do final grafting for desired cultivar and sell the tree a few months later.

Didn't mean to sound mad, but I get a bit wary when I read "tropics" "collection" and "truckload" The irresponsible collection of some species for bonsai in some areas of the Pacific have had dire consequences and resulted in bans

https://www.denr.gov.ph/news-and-fe...-p300k-worth-of-threatened-plant-species.html

 

[Cajunrider]

Didn't mean to sound mad, but I get a bit wary when I read "tropics" "collection" and "truckload" The irresponsible collection of some species for bonsai in some areas of the Pacific have had dire consequences and resulted in bans

https://www.denr.gov.ph/news-and-fe...-p300k-worth-of-threatened-plant-species.html

Believe me, I'm not happy with the destruction of the jungle over there either. As for the root stock farms, I think they exist in larger number there because farmers over there don't get access to good seeds so they plant trees of whatever seeds they can get. Later on they get scions from desired species to graft before selling the trees.

The communication between people like us and people over there is actually critical. People there all love nature and want to preserve it. However they also need to make a living. Knowing how to work the land without destroying it is the key. They can't practice what they don't know.

 

[Cajunrider]

While we are on the subject of collecting, is there any benefits to severing the roots around and under a tree and leave it in place for a while before collecting?

 

[Dav4]

While we are on the subject of collecting, is there any benefits to severing the roots around and under a tree and leave it in place for a while before collecting?

I used to advocate trenching/cutting the roots 6-12 months prior to collection. Now, I feel more comfortable collecting/chopping the top and the large roots all in one go. Ultimately, I feel that cutting the roots then waiting a while before digging means you're actually collecting a weaker tree then if you do it all at once... my 0.02.

 

[Cajunrider]

I used to advocate trenching/cutting the roots 6-12 months prior to collection. Now, I feel more comfortable collecting/chopping the top and the large roots all in one go. Ultimately, I feel that cutting the roots then waiting a while before digging means you're actually collecting a weaker tree then if you do it all at once... my 0.02.

Good to know. I think that when we collect a healthy tree right away, the tree has energy reserve to grow new roots. If we prune the roots and collect later, you are right, we'll be collecting a weaker tree.

 

[rockm]

While we are on the subject of collecting, is there any benefits to severing the roots around and under a tree and leave it in place for a while before collecting?

Depends on the tree, but mostly NO. I have found doing that with some trees, including hornbeam, results in their death.

 

[Cajunrider]

Depends on the tree, but mostly NO. I have found doing that with some trees, including hornbeam, results in their death.

Thanks for the info. It's good to discuss and find good practice. I don't like to collect trees and wind up killing them.

 

[Zach Smith]

My only comment is, if I collected trees and let the roots dry out for 14 days, I wouldn't have any trees. Even sealing the chops. Roots like to remain moist. That's one reason they live where they do.