Subdue Maxx

Ben in Kzoo

Yamadori
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Hello nuts
I keep hearing about Subdue Maxx as a great fungicide. The cost is steep, so the questions are:
- is it a must have, or do you have substitutes with the same active ingredient?
- what I see available will last me a lifetime. If above is yes, does anyone have a source for smaller quantity than a quart?
- If above is no, anyone here selling some in small quantity?
- if above is no, anyone interested in buying some from me if I invest?

apologies if this topic was addressed, I searched but didn’t find those questions answered
 
a great fungicide

Great to keep you hooked on the chemical nipple!

Welcome to Crazy!

If the tree roots could talk about what they thought about "great fungicide"........

Sorce
 
It is not a must have. A fungicide rarely is. Most All microbes make fungicides, bactericides and super complex chemicals that we'd wish we could copy to make a profit and cure disease. So having the right microbes and fungi around will provide your plants with all the antibiotics they need to ward off the bad guys. Then again, the bad guys do the same and it's a constant chemical arms race in the microbial world. Sometimes you need to use something from a bottle.

There are substitutes with the same active ingredient Metalaxyl but they - no matter the formula - have been deemed ineffective since the 1980's according to wikipedia (see the part above for part of the explanation).
Fungicides can break down and it doesn't make sense to have more around than you need.

If you're going to use fungicides, you do this in a certain fashion. Otherwise, you'd just be plain stupid. I'm not kidding, application of the wrong fungicide or the wrong technique of application or protecting yourself can damage you and your plants.
1. Identify the fungus - a rust is not a mildew, a mildew is rarely a problem. Make sure you know at least the family of the fungus. Always see if there's other ways of treating it. Sometimes a dash of vinegar, potassium carbonate, sulfur, limesulfur, copper sulfate or H2O2 is enough.
2. Look for fungicides that are known to kill this specific fungus. If there aren't.. Tough luck: Most fungicides will be pretty specific to certain fungi and will screw up your soil and foliar microbiome, so make sure they work. You can set a house on fire if there are ants in the garden, but that's not really helping. Same goes for biocides; if they don't work, just don't buy/apply it. Google scholar is your friend: fungus name / Bacteria name + antibiotic name.
3. When found, search the SDS or MSDS of the product. Look what it does to humans, to animals and to water and soil. Most of these things will be hazardous in the sense that they can sterilize a human, give you lung cancer faster than smoking six packs of cigarettes an hour, and make you blind. All those H- and P-sentences can be found on google.
4. Read the f-ing label. I can't stand the fact that we're all here on a forum reading hundreds of pages of bonsai information and freaking dare to ask "HoW dO I ApPly ThIS StuFF?!". It's on the box! It's on the label! It's in the manual! It's usually less than 40 sentences and there are images and stuff! Man, that really pisses me off. - I deleted a three paragraph rant here -
5. Apply it with caution and only when you need it. I know some people that treat extensively for needlecast on pines for instance and they still get 20 needles on a tree to develop it. I don't treat at all and I too get 20 needles per tree to develop it. They're spending time, money and wasting the (very local) environment to do absolutely nothing. I do nothing and.. Well, that's it.. Same result. It seems that either their timing is terrible, or that maybe, their fungicide isn't doing jack (except for breeding and genetically solidifying natural resistance).
 
Honestly, @Wires_Guy_wires is right on. Getings an effective fungicide is a chore, expensive and can be hazardous….

One pretty darn safe, effective and cheap fungicide is freely available though, I use it almost exclusively as no fungus I’ve found in a garden can stand up to it. That’s Hydrogen Peroxide.

I use 3% H2O2 diluted at various concentrations, from 1 TBSP / QT spray bottle for seedlings as a preventative all the way up to 1.5% in the garden. In one case I used it full strength to save an azalea that was root rotted. link


Here’s what the CDC says in a study on uses of different anti microbial products. Here’s the link… scroll down to H2O2.

Microbicidal Activity.​

Hydrogen peroxide is active against a wide range of microorganisms, including bacteria, yeasts, fungi, viruses, and spores 78, 654. A 0.5% accelerated hydrogen peroxide demonstrated bactericidal and virucidal activity in 1 minute and mycobactericidal and fungicidal activity in 5 minutes.

Good Luck
DSD sends
 
Thank you both
I might go towards a preventative like infuse
I have a Siberian elm in the yard that gets something every year, and that get transmitted to all my elms.
@Deep Sea Diver can you use the Hydrogen Peroxide as a foliage treatment? Or just root drench?
 
I mostly use on foliage and secondary as a drench if issues surface that warrant its use on the media.

Rather not use it on the media though. Like to have a healthy rhizosphere.

Cheers
DSD sends
 
Daconil will work on most fungus that affect your bonsai. Spectrum works great for tougher problems. There is nothing wrong with responsible use of pesticides or fungicides.

What kind of issues are having with your elms?
 
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