Taper Help on Japanese Maple(Green leaf)

[Njyamadori]

I’ve got this little Japanese maple off of Facebook like 2 months ago. I feel like it doesn’t have a good trunk taper . Also on the right side of the maple it has no nebari and on the side it has amazing nebari so it’s really weird. How can I fix that ?

 

[sorce]

Prevention is key. Unfortunately we couldn't prevent this purchase.

Truth.

You can do better from a seed in one year, without the mistakes.

Sorce

 

[Njyamadori]

Prevention is key. Unfortunately we couldn't prevent this purchase.

Truth.

You can do better from a seed in one year, without the mistakes.

Sorce

Are you saying it’s a bad purchase or it has a disease ?

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Here's a possible fix, next repot tilt it over

 

[Njyamadori]

Here's a possible fix, next repot tilt it over
View attachment 348535

Yeah I would say that can be a possible fix but the only thing is that I personally hate tilts Bjorn does the smallest tilts for no reason and it kills me inside. But yeah I maybe can

 

[sorce]

Are you saying it’s a bad purchase or it has a disease ?

You have a disease that made you purchase it! We all do. So I don't blame you.

But if you had a seedling with a seasons worth of growth and showed it here, I hope no one would be like....
"Chop it randomly and let it get a great start at reverse taper".

Which is kinda where this is.

Things are only a bad purchase if you believe it.
Or if you could do better with your own time.

I think you can do better from seeds.

Find the reason, you don't have to agree with the reason but you have to know what it was.

Sorce

 

[Paradox]

Yeah I would say that can be a possible fix but the only thing is that I personally hate tilts Bjorn does the smallest tilts for no reason and it kills me inside. But yeah I maybe can

Long straight trunks are boring. Tilting a tree creates movement and looking at that tree and how the roots look, it wouldnt be a bad move to tilt it

 

[Enfield Snapper]

Long straight trunks are boring. Tilting a tree creates movement and looking at that tree and how the roots look, it wouldnt be a bad move to tilt it

I would consider doing the tilt and then letting it grow out until I could use that longer branch on the left side to extend the trunk and develop taper. Using that branch would also help to bring the balance back over the base. That will make it a larger tree, but the only way to develop taper and keep it this size is to chop it even shorter than it already is.

 

[Paradox]

In fact I would tilt it then use that second branch on the left (the longer one) as the new leader

*edit* lol posted at the same time as Enfield.

my suggestion is for the same reasons he/she stated

 

[Adair M]

Hmmm... it doesn’t look like there are any nodes between the nebari and where are the branches are. Japanese Maples only produce buds and branches at nodes. It that’s true, and there are no nodes, there can be no new branches. Without a branch in that area, there’s nothing to create taper. The roots will expand over time and build up a bit of a base, which will help, but you’ll never get ”taper” in that area.

Look at my avatar. See it has nice spreading roots? But the trunk between the nebari and where the first branch is has no taper. After that, the taper is good. But that lower trunk area will never have ”taper”.

Here’s a bigger picture of my avatar:



Now compare that to this tree:



They were grown differently when they were very young.

 

[Njyamadori]

Hmmm... it doesn’t look like there are any nodes between the nebari and where are the branches are. Japanese Maples only produce buds and branches at nodes. It that’s true, and there are no nodes, there can be no new branches. Without a branch in that area, there’s nothing to create taper. The roots will expand over time and build up a bit of a base, which will help, but you’ll never get ”taper” in that area.

That’s what I was thinking . I guess I should only focus on nebari so it eventually gets thick

 

[Adair M]

That’s what I was thinking . I guess I should only focus on nebari so it eventually gets thick

I updated my post above.

You wont be able to “fix” that. If you wanted a tree with taper, you should buy one with taper already started, or one that has lower branches that can build taper where you want it.

If you want that tree to look like it has taper, it’s going to have to be a much taller tree.

 

[Njyamadori]

I just really can’t find anything online to get and I just get random material that I don’t need

 

[63pmp]

I just really can’t find anything online to get and I just get random material that I don’t need

I sympathise with you; and if you do find something half decent it will cost your soul. Don't fret, look at as a practice tree. Next repot, treat it like a cutting. hack roots right back to base and
expose the Cambium on the rootless side, add rooting hormone and cover in sphagnum, it might sprout some roots.


Trim shoots from that node that looks like an octopus to 2 shoots, let them grow wild and then use one for a thread graft lower down on the bare trunk, after its taken you can then use it as a new trunk. You will get taper and movement. It's a 3 year project but it teaches you much needed skills. All the time keep looking for better material.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Or you could style it as basic formal upright by wiring the longest lefthand and righthand branches horizontally, the tall one in the middle rear down to horizontal in back, give all 3 some zig-zag and just guide growth into ramification for all twigs/branches present now. It will be a nice little tree in a year and if you do nothing but continue that design it will eventually get to whatever size it would be by growing it any other way in the same time frame. Increasing nebari and thread grafting being separate issues you may or may not be up to or even willing to apply, given that it's not a bad form now, it's just untrained and young. Chopping and other drastic operations will not speed up anything. They just change directions of growth and any wood subtracted will delay wood accumulation by the same amount as what is chopped. Chop it in spring and you will be looking at today's pictured tree two years from now, except it will be shorter by some length. Bad Karma. If you like 'Taters, chop it down. Now, it's a small tree.

 

[Njyamadori]

Or you could style it as basic formal upright by wiring the longest lefthand and righthand branches horizontally, the tall one in the middle rear down to horizontal in back, give all 3 some zig-zag and just guide growth into ramification for all twigs/branches present now. It will be a nice little tree in a year and if you do nothing but continue that design it will eventually get to whatever size it would be by growing it any other way in the same time frame. Increasing nebari and thread grafting being separate issues you may or may not be up to or even willing to apply, given that it's not a bad form now, it's just untrained and young. Chopping and other drastic operations will not speed up anything. They just change directions of growth and any wood subtracted will delay wood accumulation by the same amount as what is chopped. Chop it in spring and you will be looking at today's pictured tree two years from now, except it will be shorter by some length. Bad Karma. If you like 'Taters, chop it down. Now, it's a small tree.

Yeah I guess I will do that in a week or so

 

[_#1_]

Doing that; in a couple years you'll have a little stick with a couple branches sticking out and a crappy nebari.

Deciduous trees are known for having great nebari. People usually work down on up. Not the other way around; or ignore the nebari all together.

A good approach to taking people's styling advices is to look at their trees first.

 

[Njyamadori]

So basically every one is saying that this tree is sh*ty and it’s not worth $65

 

[Shibui]

Sorry but it is certainly not worth $65 IMHO. You started by pointing out the 2 major problems - taper and nebari - which just happen to be probably the 2 most important features in JM bonsai.
Any tree has the potential to become bonsai but some have a much longer journey to reach the goal. I would not go back to that seller for more trees.

You have already spent the money so use your tree to learn with. Try out some of the techniques we use to correct problems - growing out, pruning, layering for roots, etc. In a few years your tree will look very different and could be way better than now.
Roots can be grafted to make better nebari or layer the area to get new roots entirely.
Taper can only come from lots of time or repeated trunk chops and grow. @Adair M pointed out there may be some problems with chopping this one for taper so keeping it as a small tree may be difficult. Grafting branches or new leader lower could also be an option but all these will add years to the development of the tree.

 

[SeanS]

$65, it is a very rare cultivar?

You need to let one of the branches grow unchecked for a season or 2, then cut it back and grow the next leader out, cut back, and repeats. That’s how you build taper