thinking about a new direction for this JBP

[Adair M]

In addition to what Leo said, you can graft on some more branches. Both directly on the trunk, and onto the existing branches. Thus putting foliage closer to the trunk.

 

[aidan13]

If it were mine I would remove the crown and go with the very dramatic horizontal movement:

 

[Eric Group]

I would not cut any branches, not until after you have spent a few years trying to grow more ramification and foliage. The tree simply does not have enough foliage.

I would pull down branches a bit, both right and left. Make nice arcs, branches leave trunk rising some, then arc or bend down, to show the effect of the weight of snow and the soon to be dense foliage. Don't eliminate movement, put more movement into the branches.

Develop foliage, finer branching, more 2nd and 3rd and 4th degree branching. Make the foliage match the beautiful age of the trunk. Spend upwards of 5 years doing this. If after a number of years you still are not happy, then consider changing it to literati. But I see a more full, dense tree, with well developed foliage as the better future for this tree.

Nice tree, I would be quite happy having to work on this one.

This is the best plan, clearly he needs to chase the growth back, but he can't really stimulate back budding without trimming off a few branch tips can he? I agree a drastic restyle at This point would be a mistake... Perhaps you guys can give him some tips on how/ when you would work on this tree to chase that growth in towards the trunk. With my trees I've gotten some decent back budding my removing the growing ends during the late Spring/ summer- completely removing them not just pruning back the candle. I got about 6 different branches on one tree popping out little baby buds further up the branches, right about where I wanted them.

I understand the pros would just graft a bud/ branch where they want it, but I don't have any pros to show me how and don't feel comfortable doing it without instruction. I have read how it is done, seen pics, but a good JBP is hard for me to find... I have to take care of the few I have! I don't know if the OP is ready to go for something like that or not... But it might speed things up a bit.

 

[Adair M]

Eric,

This tree has relatively thick and flaky bark on both the trunk and branches. Once the bark has developed to this point, it rarely pops with a back bud. I'm not going to say it can't happen, but it's rare.

To get foliage closer to the trunk, grafting is indicated.

I spoke with Peter Tea this past weekend about grafting (and he and I did several approach grafts on a couple of my JBP) and we discussed "side grafting" (aka scion grafting) onto branches. He said that side grafting onto branches is easier than on trunks. He also stated that fall, late September and October, are excellent times to attempt side grafts. Spring is the next best time,

So, the OP may want to consider grafting this fall. If he doesn't want to do it himself, he has time to find someone who can.

A thin trunk like this one should have short branches. Grafting is the easiest way to get there in the least amount of time.

 

[Eric Group]

Eric,

This tree has relatively thick and flaky bark on both the trunk and branches. Once the bark has developed to this point, it rarely pops with a back bud. I'm not going to say it can't happen, but it's rare.

To get foliage closer to the trunk, grafting is indicated.

I spoke with Peter Tea this past weekend about grafting (and he and I did several approach grafts on a couple of my JBP) and we discussed "side grafting" (aka scion grafting) onto branches. He said that side grafting onto branches is easier than on trunks. He also stated that fall, late September and October, are excellent times to attempt side grafts. Spring is the next best time,

So, the OP may want to consider grafting this fall. If he doesn't want to do it himself, he has time to find someone who can.

A thin trunk like this one should have short branches. Grafting is the easiest way to get there in the least amount of time.

Great tips, thanks!

How thick/ mature should a branch be before trying to side graft onto it? Should it only be done with trees displaying this type of mature bark?

Are there any rules to be concerned about with these scion grafts like concerning using a scion from the same tree vs a different tree or does it not really matter as long as they are all the same type of tree...

Also- I don't have any grafting tape, and don't have a clue where to find any... Is that green "floral" tape an option, or not?

Finally, is it a requirement to make a little plastic "dome" over the scion to get the graft to take, or is that only necessary in summer... Not necessary at all, only needed in drier climates... And do we need to move a tree out of full sun when we are grafting into it?

Obviously, as I said before, I have never done any successful grafting with JBP before and I am curious about some of the steps and how to do it... I don't meant to hijack the thread, but it might be helpful for the OP as well...

Thanks!

 

[Adair M]

When you are grafting to add foliage onto a tree, use scions from the same tree.

There is a YouTube video of Ryan Neil doing side grafts where he shows his method of using parafilm. Parafilm is available on eBay. You will need a really sharp grafting knife.

The subject of grafting really is too complex to get into for this thread, but it is really not all that hard to do once you do it a couple of times.

 

[Adair M]

I did some approach grafts onto branches that were about pencil sized. Smooth bark. But I didn't see any evidence of dormant buds, so I went ahead and grafted. The branch may have popped a bud in the future, but no guarantee, but with a graft, I know I will something to work with.

 

[fore]

Adair, do those fall grafts have to be protected against freezing all winter long? Just curious.

 

[Adair M]

I would think it would be better to keep it from freezing.

If that's a problem, wait until spring.

 

[Eric Group]

When you are grafting to add foliage onto a tree, use scions from the same tree.

There is a YouTube video of Ryan Neil doing side grafts where he shows his method of using parafilm. Parafilm is available on eBay. You will need a really sharp grafting knife.

The subject of grafting really is too complex to get into for this thread, but it is really not all that hard to do once you do it a couple of times.

Thanks, I will have to try to find that Ryan Neil video... I don't plan on trying anything this year, but it is something I am considering in the future for one of my pines. It is finally getting the kind of shape I want, the growth is much more compact than when I bought it and I plan n moving it to its first real bonsai pot next year. I am interested to see what it looks like next Spring, but if it looks sparse in a few places that are too thin right now, I hope to try to graft a new branch or two in the years to come. I have a razor sharp little blad I use whenever ri am cutting bark, and just about every other tool I should need. I will look for parafilm on ebay.

 

[moyogijohn]

new direction for jbp

This is your tree !!! You have many suggrstions.. Evmibo you are right,,he asked for opions,,you gave yours,,so did everyone else.. my opion still,,I would not chop that tree to Death !!!!!!!!! Shorten right branch ,,shorten apex some,, wire the branches suggested and the ones he wants.. keep all the trunk !!! this is only my opion.. Thank you I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT YOU DO..... John

 

[october]

This is your tree !!! You have many suggrstions.. Evmibo you are right,,he asked for opions,,you gave yours,,so did everyone else.. my opion still,,I would not chop that tree to Death !!!!!!!!! Shorten right branch ,,shorten apex some,, wire the branches suggested and the ones he wants.. keep all the trunk !!! this is only my opion.. Thank you I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT YOU DO..... John

I have to agree with John. This is a nice tree, pretty much as is. Like I suggested early on, maybe turning the pot a bit might make for better nebari and a smoother trunk line. However, even the current trunk like is pretty good. I also agree with not chopping this tree. It has nice taper, branch structure has an aged look. Also, you might be left with nothing if it does not like the chop or heavy work.

Rob

 

[Adair M]

To find the Ryan Neil youtube video, open up YouTube and search on "Ryan Neil graft".