Thoughts on this Cryptomeria?

[tylerwdesign]

I found this Cryptomeria while nursery shopping that has some really gnarly nebari. I actually didn't get the tree when I first saw it, but it haunted me so I had to go back and get it. After clearing out the ridiculous amount of growth on the trunk (which still needs more cleaning up), it seems the rest of the tree is a little lackluster compared to the nebari. It also has a slight bend half way up that I couldn't see until the tree was cleaned up. Any thoughts on what could be done here? I'm really new to bonsai, so I would be fine with letting this tree grow out for a few more years to thicken the trunk or maybe grow a new apex. I bought several other trees to practice on, but this one seemed to have to much potential to mess up. Feel free to throw in any ideas on how to style the tree, but I'm really looking to find the best way to set it up for longterm success. Thanks!

 

[Gsquared]

It is hard to tell from the photos, but the trunk looks like it has a little curve to it. Cryptomeria tend to grow arrow straight in nature. Fortunately you have some low branches to work with. Since the surface roots are more prominent on one side and if there is some undulations in the trunk, you may be better off with a more relaxed informal upright design. The roots as they are now don't quite lend themselves to a classics formal upright. I've not seen an informal upright cryptomeria, but I'm sure there has got to be a few out there.

 

[tylerwdesign]

It is hard to tell from the photos, but the trunk looks like it has a little curve to it. Cryptomeria tend to grow arrow straight in nature. Fortunately you have some low branches to work with. Since the surface roots are more prominent on one side and if there is some undulations in the trunk, you may be better off with a more relaxed informal upright design. The roots as they are now don't quite lend themselves to a classics formal upright. I've not seen an informal upright cryptomeria, but I'm sure there has got to be a few out there.

I was thinking that might work as well. It could use a little more movement, but Im not sure what I could get away with since Cryptomeria is very brittle, at least to my knowledge. I may have to test that out on a practice tree.

My other thought was to either put it in the ground or a large pot for a few years and see what the tree ends up giving me. Hopefully thickening up the trunk a little and eventually starting a new apex and leaving a little of the old one as a jin. Of course I may be over valuing the nebari and it's not worth long term investment, and it would be better suited as material to play around with and learn from.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I think the base is interesting but the trunk not so much.

You have two low branches. I might consider pruning the trunk right above those two branches - and letting the branches grow somewhat unpruned while you wire a new trunk into a more interesting line.

 

[GGB]

I think this one requires a chop. Have you worked with cryptomeria before? Young ones will bud up profusely and survive chops like a deciduous tree (chops that leave no green) which I'm not recommending obviously, since you have two good branches down low. I love them as trees but tossed all mine in the great tree purge of 2016. Never got the chance to work with older material but I always hear mixed things, and it was cool to chop a conifer to 3" and watch it regrow like nothing happened.

*Edit - old landscape cryptos bud up and down the trunks too, wherever sunlight hits, but I would guess a full blown trunk chop would severly weaken it. This is just a guess

 

[tylerwdesign]

I think the base is interesting but the trunk not so much.

You have two low branches. I might consider pruning the trunk right above those two branches - and letting the branches grow somewhat unpruned while you wire a new trunk into a more interesting line.

Thanks! That seems like a good option. Any clue if this is a good time of year to chop the trunk down? And should I go ahead and repot as well or just leave it as is until next year once it has healed and shows signs of being healthy? Sorry for all the newbie questions. I wasn't expecting to get a piece of material I was so attached to before learning all the basics.

 

[tylerwdesign]

I think this one requires a chop. Have you worked with cryptomeria before? Young ones will bud up profusely and survive chops like a deciduous tree (chops that leave no green) which I'm not recommending obviously, since you have two good branches down low. I love them as trees but tossed all mine in the great tree purge of 2016. Never got the chance to work with older material but I always hear mixed things, and it was cool to chop a conifer to 3" and watch it regrow like nothing happened.

*Edit - old landscape cryptos bud up and down the trunks too, wherever sunlight hits, but I would guess a full blown trunk chop would severly weaken it. This is just a guess

Thanks, this is my first time working with cryptomeria. This one had an insane amount of buds at the base of all the branches.

 

[Handsome John]

Looks like a winner to me, the traditional design of Cryptomeria is formal upright but I've seen some with twists and curves and they look nice, very reminiscent of Hinoki when they're curved. I like it the mold breaking going on here haha

 

[tylerwdesign]

Looks like a winner to me, the traditional design of Cryptomeria is formal upright but I've seen some with twists and curves and they look nice, very reminiscent of Hinoki when they're curved. I like it the mold breaking going on here haha

I do enjoy breaking the mold, ha. I'm more concerned with optimizing the trees potential, rather than trying to force the design into what is traditionally done. Ultimately I'm mostly concerned with wether or not I enjoy the process and the outcome.

 

[JosephCooper]

At least chop the top third portion, and see what you can work with from there.

Informal upright or maybe slanting is what this particular tree is best for.

 

[sorce]

You have two low branches.

I didn't even see that perfect other low branch at first!

Kill!

Dunno how or when....
Slow and careful!



Maybe let the bottom go unrestricted while constantly pruning the top so the tree gets the idea for a few year....

You could build a large portion of your finished tree before completely removing that trunk.....

But it must be done!

Sorce

 

[tylerwdesign]

I didn't even see that perfect other low branch at first!

Kill!

Dunno how or when....
Slow and careful!

View attachment 180706View attachment 180707

Maybe let the bottom go unrestricted while constantly pruning the top so the tree gets the idea for a few year....

You could build a large portion of your finished tree before completely removing that trunk.....

But it must be done!

Sorce

Thanks! I really like that idea. That will also give me to opportunity to practice pruning and wiring the upper portion before cutting it down.

 

[BE.REAL]

I will be following this, as I got a few of these last fall. Lost 2 after winter, well actually 3. I have read, seen, and experienced that roots need to be the #1 priority upon arriving at ones home. Esp. if bought from a big box/ garden center.
But I put 2 in ground and 2 in pots, got one more I want to repot in sept. I like these and am amazed more are not "bonsai'd" esp. since its a sacred tree inn Japan...Sugi!

 

[Handsome John]

@BE.REAL I remember reading an article that they used to be super popular in Japan but fell out of popularity a long time ago, so no one really grows them in mass like they do pines or maples, plus they dont lend themselves to as many styles as do alot of other species. But still amazing trees to work with and worth gaining more interest in!

 

[toscgwsndiqz]

Cryptomeria are easy to Air layer. Foliage is a bit too prickly for many.

 

[tylerwdesign]

Quick update on this tree. I haven't done any work yet, but I will be cutting the tree back to those lower two branches to start a new trunk and B Nut and Sorce suggested. I found an angle the other day that seemed like it would set one of those branches up nicely to become the new apex. Hopefully I can get some pictures soon to show what I'm talking about. I will be putting it into a grow pot or possibly into the ground this coming spring and chopping the trunk down by maybe half. After that it will be a slow take it down over the next few season while developing those lower branches. Wish I had an exiting update with some pictures. Hopefully I'm setting this tree out on the right path and that kind of update will come in the future.

 

[Underdog]

Mine is a crypto Japonica. Looks different than yours.i hope it survives Ohio's winter.

 

[tylerwdesign]

Mine is a C. japonica as well, just the "Black Dragon" cultivar. Yours is still very young, so it doesn't have all of its more mature characteristics as mine has started to. Having said that the black dragon cultivar is definitely unique compared to other C.j I've seen. Not sure how well that will work for bonsai, but I figured I would try to play into its unique characteristics rather than fight them if I need to.

 

[Ming dynasty]

Can anyone suggest a few cryptomeria cultivars for bonsai?

 

[InstilledChaos]

Can anyone suggest a few cryptomeria cultivars for bonsai?

Black Dragon seems to be a relatively common one