Twice blooming azalea?

[One First Matter All]

Hi,

Last spring, I transplanted an azalea from the backyard into a pot. The plant, which came with the house I bought, had bloomed already. However, it appears to be budding again. Is this possible? Is it an "encore" azalea? If I'm looking to bonsai the azalea eventually, should I clip the buds to prevent it from blooming? I know that most azalea bonsaists only allow their plants to bloom every second or third year.

I can post photos of the buds if it would be helpful. However, I'm more interested if anyone has experience with this variety of azalea.

 

[Harunobu]

All azaleas bud in late summer and autumn. Those buds usually will bloom the following spring. You don't say it is blooming right now, so I assume it isn't, despite the title.

I only observed how some Encore azaleas observe at the beginning of this year. They grow new flower buds way earlier, mid June. And those open into flowers about now. At the same time, the newest shoots grow their new flower buds right now. And those will bloom next spring.

They have two flushes of growth. They grow fast and the shoots ends with a terminal flower bud. But rather than growing new shoots from the base of the flower bud, they grow new shoots halfway the first shoot. This allows them to grow flower buds at their terminal ends in the middle of summer.

A normal evergreen azalea will only grow one shoot. And at the end of the summer, this shoot will stop extending. At that point it will end the shoot with a flower bud. And then it is finished growing with that shoot. It may have some other newer shoots that it may push out, but that behave the same way. It stops growing and goes into dormancy. And next spring, it will repeat the process by growing new shoots from the base of the flower bud.

 

[0soyoung]

Well, 'Encore' azaleas bloom twice a year. That is the reason they are called 'Enclore'.

I would enjoy the show. Once it is over, I would shear it which will also remove the dead heads in the process, however it is not required to dead head or cut back. It will continue to be a vigorously growing plant if you don't.

Flower buds are just apical vegetative buds that were triggered to morph into flower buds. Once the process is started, they never go back to being vegetative. Growth may continue, but it will occur from the release of vegetative buds behind/below the flower bud.

 

[One First Matter All]

You don't say it is blooming right now, so I assume it isn't, despite the title.

No, it's not blooming currently--the title is a question, not a statement. Should I clip the buds now if I don't want it to bloom next spring? In general, how and when do azalea growers prevent the plant from blooming certain years, so as to prevent the plant from expending energy building flowers? Thanks!

 

[0soyoung]

Sure. You can sheer the plant now or pick off the buds individually if you don't want to see the flowers.

I'm not sold on this 'saving energy' stuff. Nearly all the energy in making, developing, and sustaining the flower bud comes from the trio of leaves just below it - these you likely cut off when you prune off the buds.

But I'm not 'most bonsaists', nor am I the one that made the statement you inserted (possibly accidentally) in replying to my post.

You don't say it is blooming right now, so I assume it isn't, despite the title.

 

[Harunobu]

If you want to prevent it from creating a flower bud, you would pinch the shoot as it is transitioning from spring leaves to summer leaves. Use a very fine bonsai scissors to clip away the apical tip of that shoot. This prevents it from growing from that point any longer.There is no good way to know if it is about to create a bunch more spring leaves, some more summer leaves, or ending with the flower bud.

In what respect this makes the plant invest sugars into backbudding other shoots, or growing roots, or just saving those sugars, I wouldn't be able to tell you.

I noticed that what bonsai people do is often remove the flowers as they have fully opened in spring. They think this saves energy so they feel good for 'having preventing their bonsai from flowering'. But as you point out, yours has already grown the flower buds.

If you remove them right now, most of what you are doing is making sure you don't need to see the flowers. Yes, the buds will use energy as well to swell up, probably create pigments. And the flowers use a lot of water. On top of that, flowers do shade the leaves beneath them. But bonsai people have many theories about sugar/energies or hormones. And I haven't seen solid evidence.

Professional growers of either bonsai or azalea don't bother with removing flowers. There is a method of using a chemical to 'prune' the apical tips and encourage more multibranched growth. In the process, it also prevents the apical tip becoming a flower bud. If you go to Google Streetview and go to Kanuma town, then switch the date to May or June, and then look around for polytunnels, you will see they all flower, even though they are growing trunks in full ground.
Using the chemical pruning method is the only cheap way to prune. Azalea bonsai people aren't as hardcore with apprentices doing very repetitive menial tasks as traditional bonsai masters. So keeping the flowers on and having more work to do by growing more plants is the right economic strategy.

 

[One First Matter All]

Sure. You can sheer the plant now or pick off the buds individually if you don't want to see the flowers.

I'm not sold on this 'saving energy' stuff. Nearly all the energy in making, developing, and sustaining the flower bud comes from the trio of leaves just below it - these you likely cut off when you prune off the buds.

But I'm not 'most bonsaists', nor am I the one that made the statement you inserted (possibly accidentally) in replying to my post.

Thanks! Not sure why my "reply" wen to you, and not @Harunobu .

 

[Adair M]

If you want to prevent it from creating a flower bud, you would pinch the shoot as it is transitioning from spring leaves to summer leaves. Use a very fine bonsai scissors to clip away the apical tip of that shoot. This prevents it from growing from that point any longer.There is no good way to know if it is about to create a bunch more spring leaves, some more summer leaves, or ending with the flower bud.

In what respect this makes the plant invest sugars into backbudding other shoots, or growing roots, or just saving those sugars, I wouldn't be able to tell you.

I noticed that what bonsai people do is often remove the flowers as they have fully opened in spring. They think this saves energy so they feel good for 'having preventing their bonsai from flowering'. But as you point out, yours has already grown the flower buds.

If you remove them right now, most of what you are doing is making sure you don't need to see the flowers. Yes, the buds will use energy as well to swell up, probably create pigments. And the flowers use a lot of water. On top of that, flowers do shade the leaves beneath them. But bonsai people have many theories about sugar/energies or hormones. And I haven't seen solid evidence.

Professional growers of either bonsai or azalea don't bother with removing flowers. There is a method of using a chemical to 'prune' the apical tips and encourage more multibranched growth. In the process, it also prevents the apical tip becoming a flower bud. If you go to Google Streetview and go to Kanuma town, then switch the date to May or June, and then look around for polytunnels, you will see they all flower, even though they are growing trunks in full ground.
Using the chemical pruning method is the only cheap way to prune. Azalea bonsai people aren't as hardcore with apprentices doing very repetitive menial tasks as traditional bonsai masters. So keeping the flowers on and having more work to do by growing more plants is the right economic strategy.

In Japan, there is a whole separate community of “azalea bonsai” people. For the most part, the “bonsai” people and “azalea bonsai” people don’t mix! For years, azalea were not allowed in Kokofu!

The “azalea bonsai” people are just as meticulous in their methods of growing and developing their trees as the “bonsai” people are.

Most of the stuff you wrote is not true.

One of the differences between the two groups is the “azalea” people train the trees to maximize the flower display. The “bonsai” people train their trees to look like evergreen trees, and use the flowers as a seasonal bonus, but don’t let the flowers consume the entire image. So, they often thin the flower buds to only have a small fraction allowed to bloom. The bonsai people want to develop heavy trunks and sturdy branches. The “azalea” people tend to develop taller trees, with slender trunks with widely set apart primary branches. They’re widely set because there’s more room for the flowers on top of the branches.

Therefore, the techniques and methods for growing azalea depend on who is growing it for which group it is intended for.

 

[Harunobu]

I don't really follow what you are saying, in part because your post self-contradicts itself. Satsuki azalea nurseries in Japan aren't anywhere near as obsessed about things as bonsai people. They are a lot more like azalea nurseries in NA or Europe. Rather than similar to bonsai gardens like Kimura or Fujikawa. As a result, they don't have a dozen apprentices in training that can carefully remove every single flower. There isn't the manpower or the financial incentive to do so. Which is proven if you go to Google Streetview. But a top bonsai master in Japan can have students needle pluck every single tree. Maybe they do at Kobayashi? And maybe removing pine needles is as pointless as removing azalea flowers.

I also don't think that this topic of removing flowers, yes or no, depends on whether you are after a meika-style thin trunked flower display plant, or a traditional aged trunk out-of-flower bonsai-s

I think that your point is that for a more traditional bonsai that is an azalea, you would thin out flowers to get a much better display. Yes, true. But that is for trees that you are about to put on display. Not for trees that are in training and grown to be sold to customers. If you are displaying an azalea, true bonsai or meika, you need to look at how many flowers you want to be on there. And how many of the foliage you want to display as contrast. That is an artistic decision one obviously has to make for a plant/tree that is to be displayed. But you can do that in the days before the date of the display. And it only affects how that plant/tree looks in those two weeks.

So exactly, satsuki azalea and bonsai in Japan are separate. And the level of obsession/apprenticeship is different. Growing satsuki azaleas is more of business/service to customers. Not a form of art. Manual labor on satsuki azalea nurseries in Japan is way lower than at the famous bonsai gardens.

What I am saying may be unfair because I am comparing normal satsuki azalea nurseries with the highest level bonsai artists. And maybe the people that win satuki azalea and azalea bonsai awards actually are as intense about things. And they may remove flowers at specific times (and I need good evidence, not their awards, to be convinced that there is a point to doing so). But the majority of the Japanese satsuki growers do not, as is evident by the Streetview pictures in Kanuma town. And they have way better azalea bonsai than we in the west.

 

[Adair M]

I don't really follow what you are saying, in part because your post self-contradicts itself. Satsuki azalea nurseries in Japan aren't anywhere near as obsessed about things as bonsai people. They are a lot more like azalea nurseries in NA or Europe. Rather than similar to bonsai gardens like Kimura or Fujikawa. As a result, they don't have a dozen apprentices in training that can carefully remove every single flower. There isn't the manpower or the financial incentive to do so. Which is proven if you go to Google Streetview. But a top bonsai master in Japan can have students needle pluck every single tree. Maybe they do at Kobayashi? And maybe removing pine needles is as pointless as removing azalea flowers.

I also don't think that this topic of removing flowers, yes or no, depends on whether you are after a meika-style thin trunked flower display plant, or a traditional aged trunk out-of-flower bonsai-s

I think that your point is that for a more traditional bonsai that is an azalea, you would thin out flowers to get a much better display. Yes, true. But that is for trees that you are about to put on display. Not for trees that are in training and grown to be sold to customers. If you are displaying an azalea, true bonsai or meika, you need to look at how many flowers you want to be on there. And how many of the foliage you want to display as contrast. That is an artistic decision one obviously has to make for a plant/tree that is to be displayed. But you can do that in the days before the date of the display. And it only affects how that plant/tree looks in those two weeks.

So exactly, satsuki azalea and bonsai in Japan are separate. And the level of obsession/apprenticeship is different. Growing satsuki azaleas is more of business/service to customers. Not a form of art. Manual labor on satsuki azalea nurseries in Japan is way lower than at the famous bonsai gardens.

What I am saying may be unfair because I am comparing normal satsuki azalea nurseries with the highest level bonsai artists. And maybe the people that win satuki azalea and azalea bonsai awards actually are as intense about things. And they may remove flowers at specific times (and I need good evidence, not their awards, to be convinced that there is a point to doing so). But the majority of the Japanese satsuki growers do not, as is evident by the Streetview pictures in Kanuma town. And they have way better azalea bonsai than we in the west.

And they generally do not let them flower the first 10 years of their life. They instead focus on structure. That’s because Satsuki grow foliage in the spring, then pause their growth to flower, then grow again.

so, rather than waste the time “pausing and flowering”, they remove the flower buds. The plants keep on growing instead. Creating flower buds creates hormones that stop the growth. Removing the buds eliminated the source of the hormone, allowing growth to continue.

in the West, it seems we cannot resist seeing the flowers! This causes the development to be slower than they produce in Japan.

 

[Harunobu]

I think we went through this before, but again I would ask: what is your evidence?

Either for satsuki azalea having a mechanism that stops them growing, and then restarts them growing two weeks later (think about why that would arise evolutionary).
Or for the Japanese satsuki growers going through all their azalea and removing the flowers (and at what stage)?



Source:

huukei

(granted, that picture may actually match with people removing the flowers near the end of flowering, and dropping them on the floor first, rather than binning them immediately. It seems more would dry up and remain on the plant. But clearly they let them flower, and then cleaned them up. Probably leaving the fruit bodies on them. Still way less work to pull of the petals when they are almost spend so they don't dry up on top of the leaves, to pinching out flower buds before they even swell.)

Or Satsukimania/Shibue pictures.
Or Google Streetview. Or the people here who went to Kanuma, or other places, and attest to the fact that the Japanese don't bother removing flowers. (Or was it Russell Coker or Ibonsaiforum (does he post here?)?)

Yeah, if you repot late winter and you want to reduce water demand, go ahead and remove flowers. Probably very smart if you have just reduced the roots as bunch and not pruned much. But to prevent a 2 week pause in growth? Why would it evolve a regulatory mechanism to pause for just 2 weeks out of 52?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I for one always allow my azalea to bloom. Normally I will thin out the number of buds. If I were to cut off all the flower buds, I should just as well grow boxwood. I hate boxwoods, they bore me. Flowers are the rent the azalea pay for the water and food I give them.

If you are not paying a mortgage with sales of azalea, there is no need to forego flowers. Always keep at least a few buds, to enjoy the flowers, just to feed your soul. Even if it takes a little longer to get to world class exhibition quality.

 

[One First Matter All]

I for one always allow my azalea to bloom. Normally I will thin out the number of buds. If I were to cut off all the flower buds, I should just as well grow boxwood. I hate boxwoods, they bore me. Flowers are the rent the azalea pay for the water and food I give them.

If you are not paying a mortgage with sales of azalea, there is no need to forego flowers. Always keep at least a few buds, to enjoy the flowers, just to feed your soul. Even if it takes a little longer to get to world class exhibition quality.

Thanks, @Leo in N E Illinois . You make a compelling case!

 

[Clicio]

If I were to cut off all the flower buds, I should just as well grow boxwood. I hate boxwoods, they bore me.

"I hate boxwoods."
That's music to my ears.
I've been trying to say it aloud for ages.