when to begin styling

amcoffeegirl

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at what age is it ok to begin rough styling on a tree? on a 2 yr old seedling should you remove lower branches or let it grow wild until trunk diameter is reached? should you keep topping the crown to enhance branching or just wait. i actually like to chop the crown so the rest of the tree can get light. is the procedure the same for shohin trees? just curious?
 
at what age is it ok to begin rough styling on a tree? on a 2 yr old seedling should you remove lower branches or let it grow wild until trunk diameter is reached? should you keep topping the crown to enhance branching or just wait. i actually like to chop the crown so the rest of the tree can get light. is the procedure the same for shohin trees? just curious?

This real depends on the species of tree you are dealing with. Sometimes it depends on whether you have an idea of what it is you are trying to achieve, and you know how to get there as opposed to doing a little of this, and doing a little of that, and waiting to see what happens------if you understand what I mean. In short your question has to be a bit more specific.

In some cases you can start some basic training of a tree not yet a year old. In other cases, depending on what you want to accomplish, you could plant the tree in the ground until the trunk reaches a particular girth before you start working on it. Or you could have some sort of program somewhere in between.

Sometimes developing raw material can be complicated especially if you have a plan other than observing what happens when you do something to the tree.

As far as removing branches, this also depends on what you are trying to accomplish. For example if I want a really short Pine tree with a really large trunk that does not look like I have stuck a small Christmas tree on the end of a old log, I have to preserve the lower branches while allowing the top to grow enough at the same time to fatten the trunk. Then, instead of cutting off lower branches I cut off the top of the tree and allow the bottom branches to develop the image of a small tree with a big trunk.
 
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Yes i was very vague but thanks for responding. i am working with ficus nerifolia currently. i have several 1-3 yr old trees. If there are obvious issues like bar branches or crossing branches i have been removing them. i know how to trim them to get them to grow in the direction i want. im still new so yeah sometimes i do this and that because i dont know any better.
 
If I were you, I wouldn't prune off the low branches as a general practice, unless you have something more specific in mind for the long-term. Those are the ones you may be using later after you chop the top off a few times. And if they're low enough, they'll help the base of the trunk thicken.

I have lots of little plants that sound like what you're describing. I tend to call them "cuttings" rather than "seedlings", but same idea. I'm trying lots of different approaches with them. Some I hack back regularly; some are for future grafting projects, etc. Not that I feel the need to reinvent the wheel, but I do really enjoy the experimentation aspects of plants & bonsai.
 
Yes i was very vague but thanks for responding. i am working with ficus nerifolia currently. i have several 1-3 yr old trees. If there are obvious issues like bar branches or crossing branches i have been removing them. i know how to trim them to get them to grow in the direction i want. im still new so yeah sometimes i do this and that because i dont know any better.

You ought to get in touch with the Bonsai club there in Des Moines. At one time this club was very active and full of good people.
 
This is a very good question, and I agree with everything said above. But let me give you my perspective which is that of grower with thousands of trees and not enough time to diddle with anything that won't result in a positive response.

I have two basic rules on how to begin styling that are so general that they encompass just about all bonsai. These are the first questions I ask, and if the answer to either is yes, then I begin the process, otherwise, I am inclined to just let things grow.

The first question is: Does this tree show me anything that would have bonsai potential? This is a very broad question, but it is really where you begin. An untrained tree may have several characteristics that would lend themselves to a believable bonsai, but I look for its strongest quality. For example, a completely untrained tree may have a fantastic nebari, but nothing else of a bonsai nature. If I see this, then I start the process of building a tree from the nebari. Usually this will mean a short tree with a thick trunk, but not necessarily. So the question now is, what do I do to build a trunk like that? This question will lead a whole chain of decisions that will build a tentative tree.

Of course, you need to know not only basic information about styling (rules!), but a good grasp of the qualities that actually make up a believable bonsai. Most beginners won't have this (naturally), and thus will feel lost. This is a part of paying your dues. You need to read, study, and especially work with other practitioners to learn this. We have a local study group, which is a small group of experienced folks who do nothing but sit around together for 6 hours about six or eight times a year and design or modify their trees. This kind of exposure is invaluable. General club attendance can also give you a lot of this, but on a less concentrated basis.

The other question is: What, if anything, is going wrong with this tree from a bonsai perspective. A completely untrained tree may not be showing much of anything in the way of a good bonsai characteristic, but it may be showing, or beginning to show an undesirable quality (fault). If this is happening, you need to take action to correct the fault before it gets worse. This could be something as simple as a whorl of branches on a pine that are beginning to create a bulge. You may not see anything usable at this point, but if you don't make the correction, any later potential may be lost or diminished by the fault. A VERY common beginner mistake is not to correct the rooting or nebari on a pine. Surface root correction is something that must be done every time a tree is transplaned (repotted). If left for more than a few years, a bad rootage will be uncorrectable. So, no matter how much time and energy you put into the tree past this point, it will still have a fault that diminishes its potential. A few minutes spent doing this root work every year or two would transform something atrocious into a believable bonsai (assuming you do other things correctly. I can't tell you how times I have seen pine trees with years, maybe even decades of work with roots that I can't even stand to look at.

Of course, once you have analyzed your trees, you either take the next step or leave them alone. But taking the next step requires another complete level of discourse, and assumes you KNOW how to either enhance its bonsai nature or eliminate the fault. This dilemma keeps drawing me into bonsai. The marriage of horticulture and art is a seemingly bottomless pit of potential possibilities. There is so much to learn, but the more you learn, the better your bonsai, and the deeper the passion.

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
 
This is a great and passionate answer thanks
 
Great info Brent! Have you written any articles on this topic of correcting nebari on pines?.. especially with pictures?

Good luck amcoffeegirl. Ficus is a great choice to learn these techniques on as they should develop very quickly given the right conditions. :)
 
Great info Brent! Have you written any articles on this topic of correcting nebari on pines?.. especially with pictures?...

Agreed. You always hear not to worry about the nebari on evergreens, so I'm curious exactly what you find offensive. And Thanks for the thoughtful answer!
 
Agreed. You always hear not to worry about the nebari on evergreens, so I'm curious exactly what you find offensive. And Thanks for the thoughtful answer!

I either missed something or someone deleted a post but I cannot find where anyone found anything offensive in this thread.
 
I either missed something or someone deleted a post but I cannot find where anyone found anything offensive in this thread.

I think he means "offensive nebari" :)
 
I can't tell you how times I have seen pine trees with years, maybe even decades of work with roots that I can't even stand to look at.

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com

Here's the quote
 
I can't tell you how times I have seen pine trees with years, maybe even decades of work with roots that I can't even stand to look at.

Are you referring to pines with the swirled, entwined mass of roots at their bases?
 
Are you referring to pines with the swirled, entwined mass of roots at their bases?

Yes. What you are seeing is the original root bound root mass of a smaller pot, usually the one gallon stage. There is absolutely no effort to correct this in many cases.

I wrote this article for the blog several years ago: Where It All Begins

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
 
Yes. What you are seeing is the original root bound root mass of a smaller pot, usually the one gallon stage. There is absolutely no effort to correct this in many cases.

I wrote this article for the blog several years ago: Where It All Begins

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com

Exactly what I was asking, Thanks Brent!
 
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