I guess I'm a snob---- the reverse kind

Joe Dupre'

Joe Dupre'

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Not really a snob, but just put off by spending "too much" money on my hobbies. I've been in a few hobbies, and you can spend big money without much problem. You can certainly do that in bonsai. I've taken the opposite route--- getting great results without giving up an arm and a leg. I use #8822 from NAPA, SafeTSorb from Tractor Supply and $5.00 a bag pine fines from Lowes. 10 years and 125+ trees collected from woods, yards and roadsides. I get as good or better growth than most. Have y'all priced a pot lately that's big enough for a tree like my Athena with a 22" base? Scary!!

This spring, I'll repot Athena in a 25" x19" plastic feed pan from Tractor Supply. I'll fill it with my regular mix ----- 50/50 inorganic and organic. The pot was $18.00 and the soil will be about the same. The tree cost me a couple hours of labor and $1.00 worth of gas. Repotted and thoroughly watered, the whole mess will be about 150 pounds. It will never go to a show and I'm very satisfied for it to stay right there in the center of my garden.

I attribute my practices to parents, aunts, uncles and neighbors that went through the Depression in a tiny rural town (pop. 100). To each his own, though. If you want to and can afford it, spend away. You only go around once.
 
I think it’s good!
You are right. Folks can spend hundreds on the hobby before even knowing what they want to achieve.
I have several trees in growers pots and I’m in no rush to change that.
As long as the plants are healthy they don’t mind at all.
 
I’m very much in the same camp as you. I get most of my satisfaction from putting in time and effort rather than money. Growing from seed, picking up material, building benches, even making my own pots—those parts of the hobby are what I enjoy most.

I also fully get why others prefer to invest more money than time. Everyone has their own limits and goals, and both approaches are valid.

And for me personally, when I see an amazing tree, my first reaction isn’t “I need to own that.” It’s “How could I grow something like that myself over the next couple of decades?” That long path is part of what makes the hobby meaningful for me.
 
Y'all really think that because you spend more money on bonsai that it's less work and less genuine?😆 This kind of post comes up every so often and it always disappoints me.

“I’d rather spend the time and effort instead of cash” carries a silly judgement with it.

I find most of the people that say stuff like this have never really worked on more expensive advanced trees. To me it comes across as a veiled “sour grapes” kind of thing.

Im not a rich man. I’m also no longer a young man. My days of futzing around with material that takes twenty years to get a decent result are also over

And don’t get me started of the “pots are too expensive” stuff that’s also part of this discussion. It’s equally as silly and short sighted (pots don’t die and last centuries) crummy low rent plastic containers not only wear out and disintegrate they LOOK low rent.

As for going your own way making inexpensive soil -its fine if you want to spend time searching for decent components from reliable sources that don’t dry up (how much is your time and storage space worth?) been there did it for a long time. As the number of trees grew and soil volume increased from a bucket to three hundred pounds or more I Got tired of the search and storing all the ingredients

BTW if all you’re growing is bald cypress you can fill the container with mud and marbles and the tree will grow as long as you keep it wet.😆

Take all of the above with a grain of salt. I’m a cranky old dude who decided a while back that you pay for bonsai one way or the other. Time is money. It’s not a cheap pastime any way you carve it up.
 
rockm said:
Y'all really think that because you spend more money on bonsai that it's less work and less genuine?😆 This kind of post comes up every so often and it always disappoints me.

“I’d rather spend the time and effort instead of cash” carries a silly judgement with it.

I find most of the people that say stuff like this have never really worked on more expensive advanced trees. To me it comes across as a veiled “sour grapes” kind of thing.

Im not a rich man. I’m also no longer a young man. My days of futzing around with material that takes twenty years to get a decent result are also over

And don’t get me started of the “pots are too expensive” stuff that’s also part of this discussion. It’s equally as silly and short sighted (pots don’t die and last centuries) crummy low rent plastic containers not only wear out and disintegrate they LOOK low rent.

As for going your own way making inexpensive soil -its fine if you want to spend time searching for decent components from reliable sources that don’t dry up (how much is your time and storage space worth?) been there did it for a long time. As the number of trees grew and soil volume increased from a bucket to three hundred pounds or more I Got tired of the search and storing all the ingredients

BTW if all you’re growing is bald cypress you can fill the container with mud and marbles and the tree will grow as long as you keep it wet.😆

Take all of the above with a grain of salt. I’m a cranky old dude who decided a while back that you pay for bonsai one way or the other. Time is money. It’s not a cheap pastime any way you carve it up.
Click to expand...
I've come to realize that I like the journey and the challenge much more than having a top-notch finished tree. I would much rather take a mower-ravaged tree and use my artistic skills (??) to transform it into something I like than to have a finished tree plopped down on my bench. As for as expensive vs cheap pots, they just have to please me. I don't really participate in judged shows, so I don't worry about what someone else thinks. Oh, I like when someone compliments trees, but it's not the reason I do bonsai.

Re: soil. I challenge anyone to prove that their $15.00 a gallon soil works appreciably better than what I used on the 40 or so different species I've grown in 10 years. Bald cypress IS an anomaly. I tend to add a bit of inorganics to help with aeration. By the way, I have some big trees that take 7 to 15 gallons of soil. No way will I put $100 to $225 of soil in a $500 to $1000 pot. It's a matter of principle, I guess.
 
I think its perfectly fine to be minimalist in expenses and such as long as you are getting the results you want.

At some point, putting a decently developed tree in a nicer pot is really rewarding. So for me, the only expense Im willing to spend is on a nicer container eventually.
 
Joe Dupre' said:
I've come to realize that I like the journey and the challenge much more than having a top-notch finished tree. I would much rather take a mower-ravaged tree and use my artistic skills (??) to transform it into something I like than to have a finished tree plopped down on my bench. As for as expensive vs cheap pots, they just have to please me. I don't really participate in judged shows, so I don't worry about what someone else thinks. Oh, I like when someone compliments trees, but it's not the reason I do bonsai.

Re: soil. I challenge anyone to prove that their $15.00 a gallon soil works appreciably better than what I used on the 40 or so different species I've grown in 10 years. Bald cypress IS an anomaly. I tend to add a bit of inorganics to help with aeration. By the way, I have some big trees that take 7 to 15 gallons of soil. No way will I put $100 to $225 of soil in a $500 to $1000 pot. It's a matter of principle, I guess.
Click to expand...
I don’t get that it’s a matter of principle. Seems to me it’s a matter of personal preference. Principle mucks it up with a bunch of judgy bullshit😆
 
rockm said:
I don’t get that it’s a matter of principle. Seems to me it’s a matter of personal preference. Principle mucks it up with a bunch of judgy bullshit😆
Click to expand...
To understand the principle, you would have to have been raised by people born in the early 1900's. I'm 71 and my mom and dad were born before 1920. I heard stories about the hard times while I was growing up. To these people, being full after a meal was a luxury. I guess having way more than I need is somehow distasteful to me. I've become somewhat of a minimalist. Your mileage may vary and that's perfectly alright.
 
rockm said:
I find most of the people that say stuff like this have never really worked on more expensive advanced trees. To me it comes across as a veiled “sour grapes” kind of thing.
Click to expand...
It always baffles me that some people seem to believe the BS that spending lots of money means getting better trees.
Just putting money down does not make one better at growing good quality bonsai..
 
I don't really have anything nice enough bonsai-wise... I enjoy the journey. I like collecting as it involves being out in the woods, exploring and enjoying outdoors. I like keeping collected trees alive and try to develop them, too.
There is no reason to put them in good soil yet.
I get positive feedback here and it pleases me. 😊
Upbringing has a lot to do with this, too.
My grandparents were through WW I, October revolution, civil war, golodomor, WW II.
My parents were through WW II. All of them knew starvation at some point of their lives and shortages for the most of their lives.
I never knew any of it personally, only by their stories and carefulness of making waste...
That aside, I spend money on something I really need or something that brings me joy, but I don't like spending money unnecessarily.
No principles involved. It's just how I am.
I admire great developed bonsai, but I love my sticks dearly. 😁
I am no young chicken.
My son will be stuck with all of it eventually.
🤪
 
I've gotten to the point in my bonsai journey that if I want to have high level trees, I'm gonna have to spend more money. This doesn't mean that I don't still do long term projects. On the contrary, I have a ton of smaller (shohin to medium size) trees that I have started from starter material, cuttings or even seed. However, I'm now in my early 50s. If I want to have high level show trees (like trees that could possibly make it into PBE), there simply isn't enough time on the clock to develop them from younger, undeveloped material. In bonsai, time is money. You either spend the years (actually decades) developing it yourself, collect yamadori that mother nature has spent decades and centuries developing, or buy from another enthusiast who has put in the time.

As for cut rate growing media, I am just not willing to risk putting an expensive tree (or one that I've spent decades developing) in substandard substrate. My nicer trees all go in sifted akadama, pumice, and lava. This costs money. I have no problem putting young material in cheaper soil. For trees in early development, I use perlite and coco coir. There's no reason to spend a bunch of money on soil for trees that are under 10 years old, IMO.

For me, bonsai is an expensive hobby. The trees are expensive, the soil is expensive, the pots are expensive, the tools and wire are expensive, the workshops with high level professionals are expensive, the stands are expensive etc etc etc. This is my passion and it's worth the expense for me to practice it at a high level. With all that being said, there's nothing wrong with doing this hobby on the cheap. Everyone is different, we're all at different stages in life, and we all have different goals. The main thing is that we enjoy the hobby whichever way works for us.
 
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End of the day ... if it brings one joy. Then...I don't see money as a focus . Stay within your means ..could be one saves an entire year for a tree. Or...not. again if it brings you joy. I've trees on both spectrum for value.

I grew up poor... so value for my money is a thing. I can not buy a tree without seeing what will arrive. But...I will save for trees. I've a stash growing currently . As my brain shifted...and I'm spending time on weight lifting. That is expensive if you want quality items in a home gym. With lots of overthinking and research until I'm solid in my purchase. Just placed a order yesterday. It is an expensive would you call it hobby... I'm fortunate . My husband ...won't have me touching my bonsai funds to buy gym items. Apparently he feels that is a home item... that he has no qualms buying without me touching my stash. That bonsai stash...is to be able to buy without discussing. He tosses money in my cup every pay. If I buy a tree. I just buy a tree. If I have depleted my funds...and just say. Hey...my kitty is hungry/empty. I've a tree I want that is $. I then buy it. But I do need to run it by him. As it's our money in the bank.

But end of the day... its the joy ones hobby brings to them. You can't put a price tag on it. But...it is wise to live within one's means. If you can do it on a tighter budget. Kudos... I have some trees I got for under $100. Do I love them less? No ... they wouldn't be on my bench then. I only buy what I like.

But...they don't call me cadillactaste for nothing. A reminder...I drive a 4 door jeep wrangler. Not a Cadillac. 😉
 
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