Roots in Turface + Potting soil

[Poink88]

Stacey...it goes way back.

One recent thread is this http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?14238-quot-Hard-quot-Akadama/

Smoke said numerous times how shitty Turface is and he dumped tons of it because it doesn't work. He called me on it numerous times basically saying it will not work. Now he has "mellowed" a bit. But really the point is to not discredit a product just because you failed on it.

 

[A Random User]

Stacey...it goes way back.

One recent thread is this http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?14238-quot-Hard-quot-Akadama/

Smoke said numerous times how shitty Turface is and he dumped tons of it because it doesn't work. He called me on it numerous times basically saying it will not work. Now he has "mellowed" a bit. But really the point is to not discredit a product just because you failed on it.

We can't be really talking about the same guy ???

Listen... I like Smoke, he reminds me of well... Me !!!
Sadly, sometimes I think things just don't come out
the way you often mean them when posting, or reading.
Perhaps if he wasn't as pushy with his beliefs a lot more
folks would take notice...
That, and he needs to work on his political views !!!
Of course I am only joking.

 

[coh]

I'd be willing to bet that if turface was available in a larger particle size, it would probably perform better, overall, than the current particle size does. In a side-by-side controlled study against an akadama-based mix? I have no idea.

I kind of doubt there would be enough demand from the bonsai/container growing community to support turface production in a larger size...probably someone has contacted them at some point about it. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to send an email or make a phone call...maybe if a bunch of us did it would have more impact. I'm willing to give it a shot. You know, though, that it would undoubtedly be more expensive than the current size of turface.

Chris

 

[A Random User]

By the way... I have a project that might be right up your alley.
Why don't you give these folks a buzz and tell them you are looking
for their product in a size that is relevant to akadama...
http://www.turface.com/contact-us

 

[A Random User]

I'd be willing to bet that if turface was available in a larger particle size, it would probably perform better, overall, than the current particle size does. In a side-by-side controlled study against an akadama-based mix? I have no idea.

I kind of doubt there would be enough demand from the bonsai/container growing community to support turface production in a larger size...probably someone has contacted them at some point about it. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to send an email or make a phone call...maybe if a bunch of us did it would have more impact. I'm willing to give it a shot. You know, though, that it would undoubtedly be more expensive than the current size of turface.

Chris

Yeah... just wait till they find out we spend two to three hundred dollars for a pair of scissors !!!
This might bump up their price...

 

[discusmike]

Julian adams has been useing turface and peat for many years with no ill effects, he does add micro nutrients because of no organics, I have trees in all diffrent types of mixes,for me I've used turface with pine bark, but it will dry fast in the summer months, no issues with it staying wet, akadama worked great till winter months and the month of rain we had last spring, turned to mush, if I had a dryer climate or a greenhouse I'd use it more, I'm looking forward to my first year with pumice in the mix, whatever works for you in your climate, I would think is all that matters,will this discussion ever end

 

[FrankP999]

Turface or similar products are sold for athletic fields - by the train car load. I doubt the entire bonsai community would purchase enough to be economically feasible to manufacture. I doubt we would buy more than the Atlanta Braves or the Florida Marlins, or the thousands of high school sports teams that use it. I wish that Turface were available in larger size, but I also wish I was good looking and wealthy. We have to deal with reality of the materials we can actually buy, not ones we WISH we could buy.

 

[Dav4]

Anyone ever hear about, or perhaps even use Mule mix? This appears to be very similar to Turface but, I think, comes in a larger granule...I can't find any specific info on line but I think it warrants more investigating. Here's the link to the manufacturer's site.
http://mulemix.com/

 

[armetisius]

$200 Scissors

Yeah... just wait till they find out we spend two to three hundred dollars for a pair of scissors !!!
This might bump up their price...

You might; I won't.

 

[Dav4]

Mule mix 516 appears to have the largest size granule out of the different products they sell...still don't know the actual size though.

 

[coh]

Mule mix has been mentioned before but I've never seen it. Looks like the nearest distributor is in Ohio. Anyone use it?

 

[Poink88]

There seem to be a few that (Poink, coh) have taken this issue personally and that is not the case. You two just seem to be the two that want to keep arguing for mediocrity. That is OK by me. You are free (for now) to plant in whatever you wish to.

Just read this.

So my trees are mediocre for 2 years eh? Give me time Smoke...then let us compare what I accomplish in say 5 and ten vs what you did in your 5th and 10th year.

For now? You are very arrogant. I am free to plant my trees in any substrate I want... now and always.

You seem to push your ideas to everyone and attack those who disagree or who doesn't follow. Well I am nobody's pull toy. Get used to it!

 

[Smoke]

Just read this.

So my trees are mediocre for 2 years eh? Give me time Smoke...then let us compare what I accomplish in say 5 and ten vs what you did in your 5th and 10th year.

For now? You are very arrogant. I am free to plant my trees in any substrate I want... now and always.

You seem to push your ideas to everyone and attack those who disagree or who doesn't follow. Well I am nobody's pull toy. Get used to it!

"For now" was a bit of political satire on the current administrations ability to use a pen and cell phone. Lighten up a little poink you'll make a tree some day. Ask me if I care? Who have I attacked? Put them in quotes.

 

[Poink88]

"For now" was a bit of political satire on the current administrations ability to use a pen and cell phone. Lighten up a little poink you'll make a tree some day. Ask me if I care?

Play with your minions...they will do whatever you say. Have a party! LOL

 

[Don Blackmond]

I'll comment, then get out.

I use a lot of turface. Why? Its cheap and a great filler.
Used by itself, it does have issues. Used in conjunction with other components, it works quite well.

Turface, by itself, can easily compact and can create dry pockets. Organic fertilizer will worsen the issue. Mixing turface with another component, like lava or hadite etc, minimizes compaction and dry pockets.

You need to keep in mind that soil is nothing but a home for roots so it needs to be a conductor of water, oxygen and nutrients. You can mix the nutrients into the soil by adding organics, or you can water the nutrients in by adding fertilizer. In either case, you need the free flow of water and oxygen. Particle size is a factor to this process. The type of aggregate is also a factor. Turface just happens to be small in size and susceptible of compaction and dry pockets.

Turning to Dario's initial post and Al's response. The turface is not making the roots healthy, but rather allowing them to be healthy. Obviously, Dario supplies his trees with fertilizer so they get proper nutrients. The turface is not supplying the nutrients. Also, Dario is properly watering his trees and avoiding or minimizing the compacted areas and dry pockets. Roots don't grow or won't grow well in compacted areas or dry pockets.

Both Dario and Al are correct.

Turface will work well for you as a single component so long as you do your part too by properly watering and fertilizing. It will work better if mixed with other components.

There are other inorganic substrates that are better suited as bonsai soil.

Caveat: the tree and the environment also play a significant role

 

[Poink88]

Thanks Don.

I've always said that Turface by itself is not good but excellent when amended properly. Somehow it is very difficult for some to understand.

Most likely and the only logical explanation is they simply refuse to understand.

 

[Smoke]

Just read this.

So my trees are mediocre for 2 years eh? Give me time Smoke...then let us compare what I accomplish in say 5 and ten vs what you did in your 5th and 10th year.

For now? You are very arrogant. I am free to plant my trees in any substrate I want... now and always.

You seem to push your ideas to everyone and attack those who disagree or who doesn't follow. Well I am nobody's pull toy. Get used to it!

Sorry man, I didn't mean to make you cry...
OK, I can do that. Lets compare some trees that are less than five years in training. You can put up some trees less than five years in training.

An elm 2010, 4 years

 

[Smoke]

Some tridents less than five years.
2010 4 years

 

[Smoke]

another trident, 2010 four years.

 

[Smoke]

and last trident. 2013 one year.