Japanese Maple Air Layer

watch out with the knuckle of the main trunk... calling for reverse taper.
But looks nice already!
 
barrosinc said:
watch out with the knuckle of the main trunk... calling for reverse taper.
But looks nice already!
Click to expand...
Thanks!

Agreed. When it comes to styling, there is quite a bit more that needs to go away, but for now, that will all be in my head/computer. I don't think I cut anything live bigger than about pencil-size; anywhere it looks like I did was really just the removal of a dead piece.

I'm planning to let this rest for a while, and hopefully grow some decent roots before winter.
 
barrosinc said:
better sooner than later...
Click to expand...
True, but also better alive than firewood though. I'm eager to work on this thing, but I know it will be weak for a while.

Any other JM experienced Bnuts want to weigh in on when it would be appropriate to do any bigger chops to this?
 
cmeg1 said:
I think I would just let it grow roots for the rest of the season.
Click to expand...
barrosinc said:
Good plan, but I would address that next spring.
Click to expand...
My thought is exactly that. What I'm kind of wondering is whether I could/should do any work over the late winter - dormancy might be a decent time to address further chops . . .
 
ColinFraser said:
My thought is exactly that. What I'm kind of wondering is whether I could/should do any work over the late winter - dormancy might be a decent time to address further chops . . .
Click to expand...
I read that large chops are better in early spring because it heels better... but take it with a grain of salt.
 
Layer roots are not like roots that come from growing from seed. Layer roots are more akin to water roots, the roots grown on cuttings in water. While the plant will thrive in the water and and put on weight and grow leaves, the transition to soil is most of the time short lived. The same with layers. The newly severed layer will usually languish after cutting away from the parent plant and seem to be OK only to up and die for seemingly no reason two months later. It's like the layer is just not developed enough to really make a big push on its own. Aftercare of the layer seems to be much like digging a native plant from the wild. The roots seem to work the same way. I would do nothing to this plant for at least a year. Its the branches and leaves that are going to make or break this new layer, and pruning and chopping will only serve to weaken and possibly remove its strength prematurely. Leaves make roots and you need all you have. Late summer and fall removal of layers is also risky due to that exact reason. As this maple moves forward it will enter fall and defoliation which will hinder root strength. It may lose all its leaves now only to grow none in spring. Spring removal of layers is always better and much more conducive to root strength with bud break.
 
Smoke said:
Layer roots are not like roots that come from growing from seed. Layer roots are more akin to water roots, the roots grown on cuttings in water. While the plant will thrive in the water and and put on weight and grow leaves, the transition to soil is most of the time short lived. The same with layers. The newly severed layer will usually languish after cutting away from the parent plant and seem to be OK only to up and die for seemingly no reason two months later. It's like the layer is just not developed enough to really make a big push on its own. Aftercare of the layer seems to be much like digging a native plant from the wild. The roots seem to work the same way. I would do nothing to this plant for at least a year. Its the branches and leaves that are going to make or break this new layer, and pruning and chopping will only serve to weaken and possibly remove its strength prematurely. Leaves make roots and you need all you have. Late summer and fall removal of layers is also risky due to that exact reason. As this maple moves forward it will enter fall and defoliation which will hinder root strength. It may lose all its leaves now only to grow none in spring. Spring removal of layers is always better and much more conducive to root strength with bud break.
Click to expand...
Makes sense - like a big cutting that can grow and look good for a while, but never actually root. I'm hoping this won't be that way, but it's certainly possible.

Any aftercare tips? I'm just planning on shade and plenty of water at the moment . . .
 
Aftercare is about what you are doing. Watch the water because it will not be really growing that much. The biggest problem is that the roots that grow on a layer do not have the network of really fine root hairs responsible for healthy growth. All of that was provided for at the bottom of the parent plant. Also, I have a theory, this is based on my theory and no scientific facts, just my study of maybe a hundred layers that I have done over the years. My theory is that layers that come from a plant in the upper 50 percent of the tree seem to have a much less chance of living after removal than a layer done in the bottom half of the tree, with ground layers done in the first two or three inches of the soil being the most reliable. It seems that while the old upper wood will sprout roots in the right conditions, the tree dies soon after because the wood is just too old to start over so high up in the tree. It also depends on the species, I have taken grape cuttings from four feet off the ground and 1.5 inches thick and grown roots, and I am sure a layer would root easily as well as olives and pomagranites. Elms and pyracantha seem to be this way also, making roots easily from cuttings and layers while maples and hornbeams are a little more tricky.
 
Smoke said:
Aftercare is about what you are doing. Watch the water because it will not be really growing that much. The biggest problem is that the roots that grow on a layer do not have the network of really fine root hairs responsible for healthy growth. All of that was provided for at the bottom of the parent plant. Also, I have a theory, this is based on my theory and no scientific facts, just my study of maybe a hundred layers that I have done over the years. My theory is that layers that come from a plant in the upper 50 percent of the tree seem to have a much less chance of living after removal than a layer done in the bottom half of the tree, with ground layers done in the first two or three inches of the soil being the most reliable. It seems that while the old upper wood will sprout roots in the right conditions, the tree dies soon after because the wood is just too old to start over so high up in the tree. It also depends on the species, I have taken grape cuttings from four feet off the ground and 1.5 inches thick and grown roots, and I am sure a layer would root easily as well as olives and pomagranites. Elms and pyracantha seem to be this way also, making roots easily from cuttings and layers while maples and hornbeams are a little more tricky.
Click to expand...
Interesting experiences, but I think your explanation may be flawed. The wood at the top of the tree is, in fact, the youngest - it isn't what used to be at the bottom. That's not how trees grow (except on cartoons).

Oh, and thanks.
 
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I understand what you are saying but what I mean is, the tree as it get older it gets larger, and farther away from the engine. Old trees like the sequoias near my home will not grow larger they will only develop larger spreading canopies because they have reached the limits of height and pushing up the trunk. So while the actual wood up high may be young, it is old growth that makes the tree larger and farther from the bottom and reducing its abilities to grow properly.

Its just a theory and not scientific. I can only relate my experiences of lots and lots of layers and my best luck comes when the layer is done closest to the bole* of the tree.

*Bole- the part of the trunk between the soil line and the first branch.
 
I think this is called 'ontogentic' age. Maturity is equated with the ability to reproduce. In this sense, the branch tips where flowering/fruiting occurs are the 'oldest'. As you've said, ontogenically old wood tends to loose the capacity to generate roots. Rooting ability is best closer to the ground level where the most ontogenically young tissues are.
 
That could be part of it. I just think the tissue closest to the roots is the best for reproducing a tree as a layer.
 
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