fredman
Masterpiece
John. No offense taken. No offense meant with the following either.... Your points seems valid on the surface, but when some real thought is put into it, the opposite is actually true ....
I think we need to clearly distinguish between "Newbie", and a "Noob" (thanks learnt a new word)
A newbie might be someone new but actually might have more knowledge and experience than anybody here (we don't know that), or might be someone that is relatively new, but has something real to offer to this forum, and bonsai in general. A noob might be a noob but EVERYBODY on here once was noob to.....
Point is both has potential and its this forum's responsibility to try and identify and help to develop that....!!!
"Catering" for newbies isn't the point of this...Respecting and accommodating is...
Its up to the seniors here to promote good and new content, but that's a separate argument...
From what I've seen and heard so far here, the reason why the good people left here over time, has more to do with the antagonistic nature here. Those that left simply because their bonsai desires weren't fulfilled here... well its there choice. As I see it there isn't anywhere else to go really, as this place is the best by far...... Some might even return someday. The point is we all need to work hard to make everybody feel welcome here...!!!!
Then again those good ones that was driven out will never return, and that to me is a sad loss for bonsai and the initial intention of this forum.....
The point AGAIN, is this place will benefit greatly with a more accommodating attitude and spirit towards others in general.....and especially towards newbies and noobs...!!!
If this forum was to be moderated and well controlled, it would be a beast of a bonsai forum. Those "antagonists" would be sorted out, and the people in the shadows out there would start talking and sharing as its supposed to be.. that's how figure it anyways...
.....the noobs will ask their questions and the seniors that feels the teaching calling will engage with them. Those seniors/regulars that dont have anything to contribute simply stays out of that thread/s ......simply stuff really. It all AGAIN comes down to the attitude of the seniors/regulars here, and how the newbies and noobs are accommodated.....!!!
Its actually two different subjects and threads and in theory the two shouldn't interfere. At the moment that is an impossibility....!!!
Again more to the point of the real problem here.....Very few newbies comes here with a "owed something" attitude. What I see from them is excitement and anticipation....the exuberance of a new bonsaist ....that same thing we all had in droves when we started off....its mostly mistaken for arrogance (some is but that's another matter) and that sets the resident "shit on you" committee into immediate action..... AGAIN its the responsibility of the seniors/regulars to guide and harness that. I mean bonsai is supposed to teach us humility, patience and a spirit of general goodwill isn't it?
The bottom line here is this place needs an attitude change from the very people that made it the great place it is.....Its not to difficult either...some simple diplomacy and that welcoming patience that we all seek from doing bonsai....
I think we need to clearly distinguish between "Newbie", and a "Noob" (thanks learnt a new word)
A newbie might be someone new but actually might have more knowledge and experience than anybody here (we don't know that), or might be someone that is relatively new, but has something real to offer to this forum, and bonsai in general. A noob might be a noob but EVERYBODY on here once was noob to.....
Point is both has potential and its this forum's responsibility to try and identify and help to develop that....!!!
Goes back to my original point. If there was a REAL attitude of embracing newbies here, then those senior/regular members (even one senior) that has the genuine urge to teach and share, will answer that/those question/s. The rest of the seniors/regulars can stay on the topic, that interests them...easy !!!
"Catering" for newbies isn't the point of this...Respecting and accommodating is...
Its up to the seniors here to promote good and new content, but that's a separate argument...
A club is very different from a forum.....!
From what I've seen and heard so far here, the reason why the good people left here over time, has more to do with the antagonistic nature here. Those that left simply because their bonsai desires weren't fulfilled here... well its there choice. As I see it there isn't anywhere else to go really, as this place is the best by far...... Some might even return someday. The point is we all need to work hard to make everybody feel welcome here...!!!!
Then again those good ones that was driven out will never return, and that to me is a sad loss for bonsai and the initial intention of this forum.....
The point AGAIN, is this place will benefit greatly with a more accommodating attitude and spirit towards others in general.....and especially towards newbies and noobs...!!!
If this forum was to be moderated and well controlled, it would be a beast of a bonsai forum. Those "antagonists" would be sorted out, and the people in the shadows out there would start talking and sharing as its supposed to be.. that's how figure it anyways...
AMEN to that. That's also the easiest thing to achieve. The regular/advanced people keeps doing what they do, and grows the forum while....
.....the noobs will ask their questions and the seniors that feels the teaching calling will engage with them. Those seniors/regulars that dont have anything to contribute simply stays out of that thread/s ......simply stuff really. It all AGAIN comes down to the attitude of the seniors/regulars here, and how the newbies and noobs are accommodated.....!!!
Its actually two different subjects and threads and in theory the two shouldn't interfere. At the moment that is an impossibility....!!!
Agreed 100%. Newbies/noobs can only benefit from a "walk in" process..... and the forum in general.
Again more to the point of the real problem here.....Very few newbies comes here with a "owed something" attitude. What I see from them is excitement and anticipation....the exuberance of a new bonsaist ....that same thing we all had in droves when we started off....its mostly mistaken for arrogance (some is but that's another matter) and that sets the resident "shit on you" committee into immediate action..... AGAIN its the responsibility of the seniors/regulars to guide and harness that. I mean bonsai is supposed to teach us humility, patience and a spirit of general goodwill isn't it?
In my humble the writing is on the wall already. Maybe small print but the signs are there if you look carefully and project scenarios going forward.
The bottom line here is this place needs an attitude change from the very people that made it the great place it is.....Its not to difficult either...some simple diplomacy and that welcoming patience that we all seek from doing bonsai....
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