Bonsai and Art A continuation of What defines a Good Bonsai from the Also Rans....

[Bolero]

Assuming we already have a Good Bonsai Tree...We now want to Morph the Bonsai into a Work of Art....
Therefor IMO we need to address the Ceramic Pot and the Ground Cover...

The Pot has to be the right Color, the right Size & the right Configuration...Size is VIP, not too big, not too small, Complimenting the Tree not Overwhelming or Underwhelming the Tree...

The right Ground Cover can Make or Break an Artful Presentation and should Represent the Natural Ground Cover of the Tree, Rocks can offer an additional feature to the GC if the Context requires...

All of the above is, of course, subject to ones perception, however, still somewhat resembling the original GC of the Tree....

Comments and pictures welcomed...

 

[Adair M]

It depends.

Lol!!!

Are you talking about showing?

On an "everyday" basis, a ground cover is optional. It's probably best without one! Better air exchange and watering. For show, soil should be covered with moss. Even for trees that grow in the desert where there is no moss. For show, it's required. Kinda like wearing a Tuxedo for attending a formal event. Not colored sand. Not spots of moss placed here and there. Completely covered from rim to nebari.

Yes, the nebari is very important. The soul of the tree is the nebari and lower trunk. Everything else is secondary.

Pots:

For show, clean and oiled lightly. For unglazed pots, the oil brings out the color. Not so much oil to make it shiny. I like walnut oil for this purpose.

Shohin pots are allowed to be more colorful and bold than pots for bigger trees.

Potting: generally speaking, the tree should be situated in the pot with the soil flat and just the nebari showing when looking straight across the rim of the pot. Even when mossed. So, when applying moss, you might have to scrape away a little topsoil to make room for the moss.

Shohin are an exception. Because the pots are so small, mounding is more acceptable for Shohin than for larger trees.

Rocks, unless it's a root over rock or some kind of rock planting like a suiseke, should not be placed in the pot to provide "decore". Forest plantings are also an exception.

The choice of the pot itself is very important. Old pots with natural patina are prized because they look old. Which makes the tree look old.

One thing you didn't mention is display stands and accent pieces. Like pots these should be sized correctly, put the tree at the best viewing angle(height),and be a complementary color for the whole composition. Accent plants should be appropriate for the season of the year, and complement the tree. If a scroll is used, it too should be appropriate for the season.

 

[Bolero]

Adair M...Priceless info, thank you, Many, many, many folks have Bonsai worthy of Showing but do not show.
So your info is very pertinent...

 

[my nellie]

Assuming we already have a Good Bonsai Tree...We now want to Morph the Bonsai into a Work of Art.... Therefor IMO we need to address the Ceramic Pot... ...

May I present an objection.
"Bonsai" = Tree planted in tray/pot -> Hence bonsai is a whole, consisting of (a) tree and (b) pot -> Therefore the bonsai artisan/grower/artist must have in his/her mind a complete icon of his "finished" bonsai right from the start.
This is not my own sapience but it is what I've been taught by Mr. Peter Warren.

 

[Bolero]

Nellie, I have an Objection to your Objection...I am not talking about the everyday common Bonsai... I'm talking about Transforming the Very Good Bonsai into a piece of Art.
Thank you for your comment...

 

[Adair M]

May I present an objection.
"Bonsai" = Tree planted in tray/pot -> Hence bonsai is a whole, consisting of (a) tree and (b) pot -> Therefore the bonsai artisan/grower/artist must have in his/her mind a complete icon of his "finished" bonsai right from the start.
This is not my own sapience but it is what I've been taught by Mr. Peter Warren.

I also have a problem with this concept. The pot very much has an influence on the overall look/feeling we get. It is fun changing the pot every couple years at repotting time. Sometimes it makes you see the tree very differently.

In fact, Boon will often post on Facebook a tree that's been prepared to be put in a pot, and photographs it in several different pots. It's fun to see who likes which pot best.

Therefore, it's best to own a variety of pots of differing shapes, sizes, colors. In my experience, it's been very hard to find "the right pot" for a particular tree in advance. The way I like to do it is to have several choices, and pick from among them. Often you will find that the pot you thought would be perfect doesn't work as well as another one!

So, when visiting shows, I check out the vendors to see if they have something I might want to use in the future. Even if I don't have a tree for it right now. Or, if I am shopping pots for a particular tree, I might purchase several possibilities. Because, you never know what might look best!

 

[Adair M]

Also, bonsai change over the years. I'm not sure you can have a static view of your bonsai and keep it that way. I suppose that's why people pinch back so much! Unfortunately, pinching is very detrimental to the long term health of the tree. Far better to let grow, then cut back.

 

[Bolero]

A Pot story... I once bought several Chinese Ceramic Tray Pots, they were on sale at $20..00 each because each had a slight & smallish crack in the bottom, which I filled with Gorilla Super Glue.
Each pot measured 18" W x 14" D x 2 1/4" H and was a nice Green Glazed with a rough finish.
I use them for Penjing or Saikei...
I put one n a local show 1n 2015 and drew 9th place out of 120 entrants, not judged but rather Public Viewing...
This Penjing of Shimpaku Juniper was inspired by Lew Buller

 

[my nellie]

... ... I'm talking about Transforming the Very Good Bonsai into a piece of Art... ...

Be careful, Bolero! You are potentially starting a whole new debate about the old subject "is bonsai art"

I also have a problem with this concept. The pot very much has an influence on the overall look/feeling we get. It is fun changing the pot every couple years at repotting time. Sometimes it makes you see the tree very differently... ...

Let me put it in other words.
Suppose you acquired a very nice and full of potential yamadori Carpinus. It is definitely going to be a "Very Good Bonsai" because of its qualities and because you master all the bonsai techniques plus you are an artist.
You envision your yamadori as a masculine, moyogi style bonsai, because of its dimensions, age, bark quality, nebari, heavy taper, movement and so on.
Following the above reasoning, your pot has to be deep, preferably angular, perhaps with a lip around the rim and with stout feet (as far as conditional bonsai pots are regarded). This is approximately what you should be seeking from the beginning. Any variation has to be within these main characteristics.
A shallow, oval, light color, glazed, with convex perimeter pot is completely not aesthetically balanced with this yamadori Carpinus, which you envision to be a "Very Good Bonsai"

 

[Bolero]

Some Bonsai qualify as Art and some do not....and what is the Criteria for a Bonsai being Art ???

 

[Anthony]

Ono ------------ is Bonsai Art ---------------- and the difference between Art and craft is $$$$$$

As painting is to frame so is tree to pot ----------------- no need for stands, scrolls and ....................

By adding in all that stuff, you actually lessen the impact of the tree.

Have fun.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Vance Wood]

So, we have the question of how, or perhaps when, is a good bonsai a world-class bonsai? The question has been asked and I know now we are going to waltz around the subject until we get dizzy and puke all over each other. We cannot even define amongst ourselves what this amorphous distinction; “World class bonsai” is with any assurance of accuracy or mutual agreement. We cannot achieve a goal without defining that goal, or know where it is, so far that has not happened.


I have found in the past that usually the argument is raised by well-meaning mid-level bonsai artists the think they have discovered the key or the Rosetta Stone and know exactly what this is. Somehow they have discovered how to define this thing and finally make American bonsai something the world will look to and follow off the cliff of artistic representation. Been there done that.


Of course at present there are at least three major schools of bonsai culture--- Japanese, Chinese and European followed by the confusion American bonsai is in. Sorry to say, it is those of us in America at present with a few exceptions, couldn’t find our accumulated asses with both hands tied behind our backs.


This is both good and bad, oddly enough, because finally we have gotten to a point where we as Americans are trying to find where we fit into the puzzle. Because there are so few really good professional growers in America the majority of us are armature dilettantes for lack of a better definition. We dream of being a professional, but we refuse to do the things necessary to become a professional.


Sadly I don’t find any arrangement of branches, or anything as mundane as trunk size and length of needles or foliage that will adequately define the amorphous World Class Bonsai. Any one who has shown a bonsai at any sort of judged show will quickly discover there is a great gap between what the judges at a show except to see and how far they are from what you produce no matter how fine you think your work is.


Sometimes these things seem to be personal and not related to bonsai at all. Other times it seems to be a personal judgment on a piece of material blah, blah, blah, accepting this piece or rejecting that piece on some esoteric basis from a stand or the application of moss. This is the way it is like it or leave it. Or produce bonsai that are so good that they glow in the dark and demand, by their overwhelming beauty, to be recognized for what they are----just another tree in a pot. Kind of discouraging is it not? Bonsai is one of those things you have to do for no other reason than you love to do bonsai and make bonsai.


In the end I think you will find that it makes little difference. If you are looking for awards you will fail, if you are looking to make large sums of money you will fail, if you are looking to become famous you will probably fail. It is when you discover the love of doing it; takes over you will have found your own success and the rest of it wont matter.

 

[Vance Wood]

Some Bonsai qualify as Art and some do not....and what is the Criteria for a Bonsai being Art ???

You cannot win this debate and will only drive yourself nuts trying.

 

[Vance Wood]

Some Bonsai qualify as Art and some do not....and what is the Criteria for a Bonsai being Art ???

In the end this can not be answered by anyone but a vast majority of individuals that appreciate bonsai above and beyond anything in life.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Assuming we already have a Good Bonsai Tree...We now want to Morph the Bonsai into a Work of Art....
Therefor IMO we need to address the Ceramic Pot and the Ground Cover...

The Pot has to be the right Color, the right Size & the right Configuration...Size is VIP, not too big, not too small, Complimenting the Tree not Overwhelming or Underwhelming the Tree...

The right Ground Cover can Make or Break an Artful Presentation and should Represent the Natural Ground Cover of the Tree, Rocks can offer an additional feature to the GC if the Context requires...

All of the above is, of course, subject to ones perception, however, still somewhat resembling the original GC of the Tree....

Comments and pictures welcomed...

Ok, let's get philosophical. Is this an example of a composition that was morphed into a work of art by an appropriate pot? What determines appropriate? The size is suitable, so is the shape, I suppose; though why not a slab? Would that make this into an artful presentation, or break it?

What if I perceive the glaze to be inappropriate because my eye favors evergreens in unglazed containers? Or more practically; you're trying to portray a calm pasture scene, why set it up on neon lights?

Does your use of ground cover and rocks enhance this composition or overwhelm it? How about the figurine?

Who's right, me the viewer or you the composer?



One of these containers makes me enjoy this composition as a work of art more than the other. Is one better than the other? Will everyone agree? Sometimes the "art" is making a good combination of tree and pot. Sometimes the "art" requires some education to appreciate too.


How about this composition? This is an F.S. Church painting done in 1896. What do you think of the frame?

 

[Adair M]

Be careful, Bolero! You are potentially starting a whole new debate about the old subject "is bonsai art"
Let me put it in other words.
Suppose you acquired a very nice and full of potential yamadori Carpinus. It is definitely going to be a "Very Good Bonsai" because of its qualities and because you master all the bonsai techniques plus you are an artist.
You envision your yamadori as a masculine, moyogi style bonsai, because of its dimensions, age, bark quality, nebari, heavy taper, movement and so on.
Following the above reasoning, your pot has to be deep, preferably angular, perhaps with a lip around the rim and with stout feet (as far as conditional bonsai pots are regarded). This is approximately what you should be seeking from the beginning. Any variation has to be within these main characteristics.
A shallow, oval, light color, glazed, with convex perimeter pot is completely not aesthetically balanced with this yamadori Carpinus, which you envision to be a "Very Good Bonsai"

Sorry, I'm not familiar with Carpinus...

But yes, there are basic guidelines that work well. Most conifers look best paired with unglazed pots. Rectangle pots are generally more masculine than rounds or ovals.

But there are lots and lots of variations that work: are the sides straight or flared? Plain walls or window boxed? Smooth or textured? Corners sharp or rounded? Color of the clay can matter, too. Brown? Dark brown? Speckled? Grey? Reddish brown? And the texture of the clay can matter: burnished, or rough? Something in the middle?

I have shown my avatar tree in two different pots:





The first two were shown with the same stand.

Now, here's another stand:



And yet another:



Even something like changing the stand changes the look, doesn't it?

Look at the first pot. The sides are nearly vertical, there is a raised panel on the sides. Dark red in color. Sharp corners. Masculine pot.

The second pot has flared sides, plain sides with a band around the bottom. The feet lift the pot up off the table. A muted grey color. It softens the look.

I think there's a big difference between the feelings with the two pots.

 

[jacob letoile]

Some Bonsai qualify as Art and some do not....and what is the Criteria for a Bonsai being Art ???

There is no real thing that is art. Grind up the David and show me a modicum of art, point to the art in a breathtaking yamadori. I challenge you. Art is a property of the viewer and is dependent on the viewers cultural baggage. Accept this or not, when your gone your notion of art will be gone as well, where people are not, there is no art.

Given the above the best you can do is to understand what moves people and try to recreate that. Hopefully it moves you as well...

I have 2 definitions that I use when I talk about art, Art makes the hidden obvious; and art gives meaning and purpose to that which without it would have none.

So when you say "some bonsai is art", I ask you what does it reveal, what is its purpose. And if you ask "what makes some bonsai art" I say it's more than a stick in a pot, it has meaning and purpose

 

[eferguson1974]

I think this is a question of taste. Some paintings are considered great by some people and fugly to anothers. Same with sculpture or music. How do you know it's a "great" bonsai or not? For me a ficus with crazy roots (not gensing, a banyan style for example) that look natural can be really great. Someone else will say those roots are ugly.
So the original question, in my opinion, cannot be answered.
Who is the best rock band of all time? There can be no one perfect answer to that question, to make an analogy. True I've never been to a show, but surely there are trees some love and others don't see why. Or is my thinking crazier than "normal"?

 

[sorce]

big difference

FWIW....mostly for others.

I like the first display....
Dark on dark on dark.

The second one falls short somewhere...
The small place, making the accent so close, and the photo angle, makes the table look too big, though it's the same table as pic one.

3 is dope because the detail in the stand compliments the accent tree.

4. Would look shitty if just the tree and stand.
But the stand color, flows to the jita color, into the accent color, which looks way better in that season than it did in pic 2 BTW....then you pick up the visible branching structure, and the whole thing works.

Tree to stand to jita to accent to crown down tree to stand......around!

Perfect!

And with what would otherwise be a pretty ugly stand!

Beautiful !

Sorce

 

[sorce]

In other words.....

Look at what tiny details can change!

It's incredible!

Sorce