New Chinese Elm Buds in Winter

[jonty500]

Hi all,

I'm new to all this Bonsai stuff.

Just a quick question as my Chinese Elm has just sprouted new buds outdoors (where its been constantly kept) in London UK. I thought it would be dormant by now but guess not.

We are due a cold snap next week and I was planning on overwintering the tree in an unheated low light shed along with my other trees that are deciduous and have had complete leaf drop.

I'm guess that its better to sacrifice some new growth to save the tree from a hard frost but am new to this and would be happy for some advice.

Jonty

 

[Anthony]

Jonty,

sounds sensible.

Range should be zone 9 maybe 8 in the ground.
Bonsai pot zone is more around 10 or 11.

Been growing them since 1980 - Tropics.
They do sleep down here - Christmas until February.
Probably short days and less light.
Good Day
Anthony

* It helps to understand the zone a tree / shrub comes from/
Also you could talk to @kevinlovett86 , who is in China.
See what the elms are doing there and their upper cold limit.

 

[It's Kev]

Elm trees are still only on my wish list unfortunately. I texted my tree guy to ask if he’s got one,but it’s 9pm now, and this guy keeps a seriously low profile over weekends. I’ll keep you posted

 

[sorce]

outdoors

Nice!

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

Just a quick question as my Chinese Elm has just sprouted new buds outdoors

Are the buds opening?
These trees set buds in fall for the next year.

 

[AZbonsai]

Like Anthony says the elms in pots act a lot different than ones in ground. Our Chinese elms at school are dropping leaves and seeds right now (as normal) My trees in pots still pushing new leaves and buds. We have had warm weather here. I think your plan to winterize is a smart move.

 

[just.wing.it]

Both of my Chinese Elms have all their leaves, and only stopped growing a few weeks ago....when I put them in the garage after our first freeze...
Weeds! they are...
25 deg F this morning!

 

[jonty500]

Are the buds opening?
These trees set buds in fall for the next year.

Leaves are emerging.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Chinese elms can exhibit late growth if you prune them late in the season.

We do not get frost here, and my Chinese elms, if I leave them alone in the late summer / early fall, will eventually drop their leaves in December... and start pushing new buds starting 2nd week of February.

However if I do a hard prune late in the year, they will push new growth and that growth will not go dormant. If I defoliate an elm (like in a late summer second defoliation for the year) the elm will often carry a full complement of leaves all winter.

That is for zone 10A... your results may vary.

 

[AZbonsai]

What is the upside/downside to hard prunning late in the season that you know of?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

What is the upside/downside to hard prunning late in the season that you know of?

Upside:
Allows me to prune a strong tree hard twice per year after the growth from the first pruning has hardened off. I can't do this during the heat of the summer, so I prune in spring... leave the tree alone during summer... and prune again in Fall. Allows me to develop branching structure twice as fast.

Downside:
Probably stressful for the tree, but being Chinese elms I have not noticed anything specific. I think the spring growth the following spring is a little weaker than normal... but that is just a guess. I would not do this on a weak tree.

 

[M. Frary]

Upside:
Allows me to prune a strong tree hard twice per year after the growth from the first pruning has hardened off. I can't do this during the heat of the summer, so I prune in spring... leave the tree alone during summer... and prune again in Fall. Allows me to develop branching structure twice as fast.

Downside:
Probably stressful for the tree, but being Chinese elms I have not noticed anything specific. I think the spring growth the following spring is a little weaker than normal... but that is just a guess. I would not do this on a weak tree.

Would you do it if it was going to freeze?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Would you do it if it was going to freeze?

No. If I look at my other elms, they all go into dormancy - even if some only go into dormancy for two months (the cork bark elms). The longest are my Eastern wing elms that often won't bud until April - two months after the cork elms. I think they all benefit from the rest. Just because I can do something doesn't mean it is always the best for the tree.

Reminds me a little of de-candling JBP. You only do it on strong trees and trees that are at a certain stage in their development. Here in southern cal it is possible to decandle twice in a year if you decandle early in the spring and then again in the fall. It is possible - but really stressful for the tree. You have to know what you're doing and have a strong tree that is heavily fertilized. The benefit is that you will build ramification twice as fast and really reduce internodes. But you do this at the expense of the strength of the tree so you never do it two years in a row.

 

[M. Frary]

No.

Me neither.
I think the O.P. is in the U.K.
I do know it's foggy and rainy there but I'm not sure how tough winters are there.

 

[TomB]

I do know it's foggy and rainy there but I'm not sure how tough winters are there.

Not that tough, especially in London. @jonty500 , just stick it in your shed when the frost arrives. It should come through fine, might grow a little bit over the winter or might not. Chinese elms often do this sort of thing in our climate.

 

[Bonsaihead]

Upside:
Allows me to prune a strong tree hard twice per year after the growth from the first pruning has hardened off. I can't do this during the heat of the summer, so I prune in spring... leave the tree alone during summer... and prune again in Fall. Allows me to develop branching structure twice as fast.

Downside:
Probably stressful for the tree, but being Chinese elms I have not noticed anything specific. I think the spring growth the following spring is a little weaker than normal... but that is just a guess. I would not do this on a weak tree.

Why not prune in summer? Bad for the tree?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Why not prune in summer? Bad for the tree?

Too hot and dry. Trees growing naturally here go into "summer dormancy" from July - Sept. Any new growth during that time would be too tender to withstand the heat and sun. All my deciduous are under shade cloth during this time of year. Many species will experience a "false spring" growing season from Oct - Dec. All my live oaks, for example, are pushing new growth right now.

 

[Bonsaihead]

Hmm very interesting... So let me ask, even though I live in Florida and don't have that issue do you think that's still be a good pruning schedule to follow since I still have the long growing season but don't have to deal with the dryness?

 

[Bonsaihead]

To be able to maximize ramification as well?

 

[Dan92119]

@Bonsai Nut do your Chinese elms drop all their leaves if you haven’t pruned them late? I am in the same zone as you 10a, the trees stay green year round. Even the elms in my neighborhood stay green year round.