Lets talk philosophy

I wouldn't say all are the same but theres a pretty big group that all started with a tree they got as a gift and the more they look into how to care for it the more they learn to love it. Even some of the people that i have talked to that have been doing it for 30+ years and now help supply the hobby got their start the same way.
 
Warpig said:
No
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Wow an honest answer: It is important to have a bonsai or two and to be working on making them where the philosophy kicks in. The philosophy starts with one question: Why do you do bonsai?
 
Better and worse. Take the Harley Davidson phenomenon. In the 40's through the 70's, Harleys were a fringe, hardcore rider's bike. Tatooed , sort of maverick type guys owned them. Now, an accountant spends the big money on a customized Harley, dresses up in his Halloween-style biker outfit and gets a sleeve of tattoos. I find that takes the specialness out of the sport. On the other hand, the technology of bikes has exploded to a level that couldn't have been foreseen 40 years ago. Old Chinese proverb : "Where everyone sees beauty, there is already ugliness."
 
Joe Dupre' said:
dresses up in his Halloween-style biker outfit a
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Hahahahaha!

I was sitting at a light yesterday, daydreaming a little, I consciously snapped back into it seconds before I had to scoot up a bit to avoid getting hit by a car that took the turn a little hot, jumped the divider curb and missed me by a couple feet.

Moron. Hit the guy behind me.

Them RUBs woulda got took out.

Sorce
 
Vance Wood said:
Wow an honest answer: It is important to have a bonsai or two and to be working on making them where the philosophy kicks in. The philosophy starts with one question: Why do you do bonsai?
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Trees i have. "Honest" trees are debatable. Either way i was looking to avoid the whole lets get way off topic by going into a post in the tea house named 'lets talk philosophy' of all things and beg for pictures.
 
Somebody earlier mentioned
Starfox said:
If Netflix or their ilk ever picked up on a bonsai related program then you'd see a definite increase of interest.

It could be done and could be done well but I fear you'd end up with some awful, shouty 'Cake Wars' or 'Forged by Fire' type of thing which wouldn't last one season. Netflix is terrible at choosing production companies for lifestyle content.
Let the BBC produce it and it would stand a chance or at the very least take 'Gardeners World' as a template, there would be no end of content and could span the globe. Done respectfully it could be very informative and not just the hit and run feeling you get with seeing a demo.
I'd watch it.
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I agree with you that the power of the internet and less so television could spark interest in the general public. Really, how many of you would know bonsai existed if not for Mr Miyogi? Personally, I think a lot of the prized trees out there would be sold to the highest bidder and mass slaughtered in a few years. It's sort of like the old saying - any idiot can make a baby, but not everybody is cut out to parent a child. Anybody with an extra $5K could buy a grip of trees and really know jack shit about caring for them-only what they learned in a 16 hour series on BBC - and through neglect or excess love, kill em dead. The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of it becoming more mainstream. I'll take the hardships I endure, have nightmares about seeing trees for sale at the gas station, and shut my mouth now.
 
Ok maybe I should of left out the whole Superbowl thing. We are not talking about the levels of going to the gas station to get your next tree anymore then you would go to a gas station for a paint brush. I guess what i was trying to say is, i just wish it got more respect as a art form.
 
The learning curve is much too long for the general public. You have to be pretty intense, a perfectionist to the point of obsessive to stick with it. The feedback from the trees has a very long lag time. It takes a minimum of five years from zero to novice level show-able for above average stock, and the longer you're in it, the longer the lag time from zero to really show-able, more like ten years. You have to be an optimist and have faith in the future, to a fault. It helps to be near a group you can join because there's nothing quite as helpful as having someone to look over your shoulder and coach you, especially in the early years. None of this describes the average American, or I suspect world citizen.
 
Forsoothe! said:
The learning curve is much too long for the general public. You have to be pretty intense, a perfectionist to the point of obsessive to stick with it. The feedback from the trees has a very long lag time. It takes a minimum of five years from zero to novice level show-able for above average stock, and the longer you're in it, the longer the lag time from zero to really show-able, more like ten years. You have to be an optimist and have faith in the future, to a fault. It helps to be near a group you can join because there's nothing quite as helpful as having someone to look over your shoulder and coach you, especially in the early years. None of this describes the average American, or I suspect world citizen.
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Ok, vary good point. So your saying, those that have the 'eye' to see it as an art are those that end up learning to study it. I'll agree to that for sure. I also agree with both yours and @Vance Wood 's other points. But this is what i was going after, the 'public eye'.
 
Comparisons to the super bowl are somewhat odd, after all football is physical entertainment and bonsai is a form of static art, pretty much the same as painting. Both artists have different materials, techniques and styles but what is considered the end product is a snapshot of you will. I would think everyone would agree painting is mainstream. Would anyone here say "painting has suffered" or "there are no more good painting exhibits" because any schmoe can go to Michael's and buy the supplies to begin the hobby? Personal preferences for exclusivity are nothing but elitist snobbery "this is OUR hobby, don't ruin it" and are similar to the ignorance smoke vibrantly displayed above, just because to him it's mainstream because it is on every block doesn't mean it is everywhere else. So when someone asks for more bonsai materials he goes "well I got ten places half an hour away, we don't need more" we go "ok I got one place an hour and a half away, I don't have a whole day free for a potentially unfruitful trip"
 
I think bonsai exists on 2 levels.

Playthings of the rich like @Anthony says.

And gimmicks at the grocery store.

We here are the in between those 2 levels.
The creation stage mostly.

We grow as slowly as a bonsai, but we are growing.

Sorce
 
@PABonsai ,

the soil recommended in the past was a LOAM.
Today it is a variation of a loam particle size.
Broken Volcanic stone, sand and clay.

The other variation is Hydroponics
Gravels

All we [ here in Trinidad ] did was add back in a % of aged compost.
To include the microbes.

Nothing really new, as all of these blends are already
available in nature.

Tools can had from China - concave pruner for example - Amazon
12 to 8 $ and the concave pruner even at 8 inches in length is
only for cutting toothpick sized branchlets.

As to pots.
Ask @sorce , to make moulds of the plastic pots and he
can pour pots by the dozens daily.

The only cost factor in Bonsai is if you feel you have no
time to grow large trunks and learn to Design.
Most resist ground growing and taking a few art classes.
Good Day
Anthony -Lord of the practical and cheap.

*** Masakuni 6 inch concave pruner 1980's 19.95 US $
 
Warpig said:
Ok, vary good point. So your saying, those that have the 'eye' to see it as an art are those that end up learning to study it. I'll agree to that for sure. I also agree with both yours and @Vance Wood 's other points. But this is what i was going after, the 'public eye'.
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I am a nuts and bolts person myself. So I stick with it and learn as much as I can on a mechanical or physiological end of things, and continue promising myself that through all the correct timing and practices, I will get a tree that is healthy and develop into it's own unique style without me having to do much on an artistic level. I think Brian Van Fleet's ginkgo is a good example of a self styled tree. He does all the right things to the tree on nuts and bolts level, and it styles itsself.
 
I dont agree with the $$ being a factor at all. Have you ever tried to restore a classic car? Or known anyone that is into computers (me back in the day), as in keeps up with the latest graphics cards and follows the tech. The point that im getting at is thats what all hobbies are a money sink for personal entertainment. Its not the hardest thing to set a limit that you can afford that works for you.

Or another example, Magic the gathering. Its a card game. But to stay up to date and going to their 'game night' you are dropping hundreds of dollars on cards every couple months. We are talking people in their early 20's and young adults.
 
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Warpig,

i know the guys who write the programmes
and the guys who improve the electronics of the
computors - RESEARCH - it's where the money
is.

Bonsai - the playthings of the wealthy.

'Cockroach have no place in fowl party.'

Thank goodness for seeds, yard clay and the ability
to drop forge.
As well as crushed gravel for cement casting [ use sieves ]
Affordable hobby.
Good Day
Anthony
 
Why do we always get back down to "How much does it cost" and worse "Why does it cost money".

It is a hobby. You can play it for nearly free, using tools from the shed and a well-polished knife. Dig a few nice shrubs from a neighbors' yard and using a cut-down broken tub for a pot. getting scarp metal from a wasteyard for wiring.

Then, you can decide you want to spend more time on working the trees and less in getting stuff together. You might spend 60 hours a week working, and the time you do have you might want to not spend rummaging to waste fields. So if you have the money you go out and buy Japanese steel tools. Handcrafted pots and nursery grown pre-bonsai.

In the end, who cares. Look at trees. Good trees. Not so good trees (yet) and bad trees. Work them. Make them better.
 
I have seen old ladies with trees in tin pans and cake pans.
Had them over 30 years.
Good tree, bad tree who cares.

They loved them like Children.

For them, that is Bonsai, and I loved seeing them.
Good Day
Anthony

Trees can take on just about any shape to live / survive.
Only some humans want prizes at exhibitions - bah humbug
 
Anthony said:
@PABonsai ,

the soil recommended in the past was a LOAM.
Today it is a variation of a loam particle size.
Broken Volcanic stone, sand and clay.

The other variation is Hydroponics
Gravels

All we [ here in Trinidad ] did was add back in a % of aged compost.
To include the microbes.

Nothing really new, as all of these blends are already
available in nature.

Tools can had from China - concave pruner for example - Amazon
12 to 8 $ and the concave pruner even at 8 inches in length is
only for cutting toothpick sized branchlets.

As to pots.
Ask @sorce , to make moulds of the plastic pots and he
can pour pots by the dozens daily.

The only cost factor in Bonsai is if you feel you have no
time to grow large trunks and learn to Design.
Most resist ground growing and taking a few art classes.
Good Day
Anthony -Lord of the practical and cheap.

*** Masakuni 6 inch concave pruner 1980's 19.95 US $
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I'm sorry Anthony but I'm not following your post. I never alleged that cost was an issue in my post. I was responding to other comments above that feel that having bonsai more mainstream would "dilute the art" if you will. I'm basically stating that bonsai can still be a very refined thing even if literally every person can practice it. I'm basically saying what you said in that post right above #59
 
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