Just ruined a Itoigawa Juniper

[Shogun610]

Just want to share my frustration. There is no tree that has screwed me over than a Juniper. Wired the tree okay , but I just had to look at it again. Realizing that a branch was snapped. Tried to fix that. Didn’t go so well as the copper wire was in there good. Then one thing lead to another and I lost the whole FU*KING apex. I think I’m done with Juniper. Is it me? It’s so damn fragile. Lost too much foliage now doubt it will survive. RIP

 

[leatherback]

Sorry to hear you have trouble. I find them to be very easy to work with

The tree you show here will be fine. It is a bit bare, probably due to thinning out the foliage on the inside? Next time, leave more of the smaller branches from the inside.

For now protect from deep frost, make sure the foliage gets some rain and dew every once in a while. In spring give it sun, fertilize and let the runners go. That should give you new shoots on the inside so you can work on it again.

This should not die on you, if you did not manhandle the rest of the branches too badly.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Not ruined at all. Many great Yamadori trees start out with less and become great trees. So can nursery tree.

 

[Shibui]

I agree. In bonsai less is more. I see so many junipers where everything is wired and used in the design when half of the branches and half of the tree would be a much better option.
The tree currently looks like an octopus because of the long, straight branches. Some more bending and a little lateral thinking would make them look way better.

I find it best not to look at what you have lost but what you now have. Turn problems into advantage. Many people would pay good money for what you have left.

Also need to look at technique. There is usually a reason for branches breaking while bending - inadequate wiring, too hasty, attempting too much without proper preparation, etc. The wiring I can see indicates lack of proper technique as a probable cause of the breakages here.

 

[defra]

Dont give up if all the green i see in the picture survives it will be alright.
Follow all of the above advice.

Only thing i like to mention is that maybe its better to wire with aluminium wire it works way easyer to learn to properly apply the wire when you get the hang of it you can try copper wire

 

[shimbrypaku]

I use Raffia on my junipers when bending. I find it helps with cracking and splitting.

Superfly has some nice raffia.

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www.superflybonsai.com

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

When a branch snaps, you usually have one move/motion left to restore it a little. If you do two moves, it'll likely damage all the way around and die.
I have a mugo pine that's been wired as cruelly as one can imagine, but since the leader snapped I can't remove the wire for the next two years until it's healed.
The point I'm making is: trying to fix a snapped branch is a process. We all make mistakes, but haste makes waste.

This juniper will look unrecognizable if you let it grow for a couple years. It'll be alright.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Plant it in the ground and ignore it for a couple years; other than to remove the wire. Work on your pruning and wiring skills and then return to this tree when you have improved a bit. It is good stock.

Bonsai can be very frustrating, but the good news is that trees can grow through most of our mistakes...hopefully you will too.

If it makes you feel better, I bet all of us have a story like this. I butchered a corkbark JBP that I’m still trying to fix, made a huge buying mistake on a J Beech that I never quite overcame, and killed countless trees along the way. Part of it, keep going.

 

[Shogun610]

I agree. In bonsai less is more. I see so many junipers where everything is wired and used in the design when half of the branches and half of the tree would be a much better option.
The tree currently looks like an octopus because of the long, straight branches. Some more bending and a little lateral thinking would make them look way better.

I find it best not to look at what you have lost but what you now have. Turn problems into advantage. Many people would pay good money for what you have left.

Also need to look at technique. There is usually a reason for branches breaking while bending - inadequate wiring, too hasty, attempting too much without proper preparation, etc. The wiring I can see indicates lack of proper technique as a probable cause of the breakages here.

Yeah I have been working on improving my wiring.... I know about proper technique... I just rushed , and the wiring looks like ass but figured it woulda been temporary . This tree was an anamoly I was having trouble getting good anchorage points in the right areas. The fingertips are getting callus like my palms do from the gym ha. I do need raffia too cause I have more stock coming down the pipeline that I will need that for. And if I go over the line for touchy touchy, someone to tackle me and tell me to stop

 

[Adair M]

Yeah I have been working on improving my wiring. This tree was an anamoly I was having trouble getting good anchorage points in the right areas. The fingertips are getting callus like my palms do from the gym ha.

One of the rings I saw with your wire is you sometimes try to wire one branch at a time. Each wire should wire two branches. That will go a long way to create good anchors.

I disagree with the advice you got in an earlier post of using aluminum. Stay with copper for junipers. Concentrate on making good anchors when wiring. Most branch breaks happen when the wire is either too thin or there’s a poor anchor, and the artist tries to “overbend” to compensate.

While it’s still possible to break a branch with a proper wiring job, you’ll find it less likely as you improve your wiring skills.

Learn from this experience, and carry on!

 

[PA_Penjing]

Pennsylvania? 6B? and you're are over juniper?! We could start a club haha. I've avoided juniper from the get go, just forced myself to purchase and work on one yesterday. I don't think I'll ever love them the way most artists here do but I think every self respecting bonsai student needs to at least try, .. .. unfortunately haha. Great stock though, you shouldn't quit. Maybe practice on some large garden center procumbens to save money. That's my plan this coming year

 

[Dav4]

This is absolutely salvageable. Lot's of good advice above. Having used copper wire on my conifers for the better part of a decade now, I can say that practice makes perfect and you should continue to work on your technique... and even I still have trouble properly laying down the heavier gauges. Like Adair said, applying the wire to do the job AND look good, which involves seamlessly connecting branches together, doesn't just happen, but takes time and some thought. Good quality/properly annealed wire, along with lots and lots of repetition, will get you there... and don't forget that you're supposed to be having fun .

 

[Shogun610]

Thanks for the advice haha , was just venting but thanks for support on Shimpaku Itoigawa’s ... so since strength is in foliage , how can junipers like this or others I’ve seen with barely any foliage survive?

 

[Dav4]

Thanks for the advice haha , was just venting but thanks for support on Shimpaku Itoigawa’s ... so since strength is in foliage , how can junipers like this or others I’ve seen with barely any foliage survive?

Don't cut off any more foliage...?

 

[Shogun610]

Sorry to hear you have trouble. I find them to be very easy to work with

The tree you show here will be fine. It is a bit bare, probably due to thinning out the foliage on the inside? Next time, leave more of the smaller branches from the inside.

For now protect from deep frost, make sure the foliage gets some rain and dew every once in a while. In spring give it sun, fertilize and let the runners go. That should give you new shoots on the inside so you can work on it again.

This should not die on you, if you did not manhandle the rest of the branches too badly.

It didn’t really have a lot of interior foliage to begin with

 

[Shogun610]

Don't cut off any more foliage...?

Well yeah I’m not just asking for a threshold others have seen

 

[one_bonsai]

I was in a similar situation in my first year or two of bonsai. I just couldn't get Junipers to look right and decided to concentrate on other species. Then I decided to do more reading, study and watching videos about Junipers to better understand what makes a Juniper bonsai look good. I'm glad I persisted because my Junipers look so much better now.

 

[Shogun610]

I was in a similar situation in my first year or two of bonsai. I just couldn't get Junipers to look right and decided to concentrate on other species. Then I decided to do more reading, study and watching videos about Junipers to better understand what makes a Juniper bonsai look good. I'm glad I persisted because my Junipers look so much better now.

Yeah I have access to good material locally luckily .. this one was stock ordered online via marketplace. I have another 1 other Itoigawa this size , Sargent juniper and nana junipers just sitting and growing with minimal work done to them.. This one I thought I could handle the wiring but obviously have a ways to go.. this one will hurt for a bit but I Bonsai on with those other junipers.... the collection has exploded this year for pines and junipers....

 

[leatherback]

how can junipers like this or others I’ve seen with barely any foliage survive?

These plants in general take a lot of abuse. So a healthy juniper with 90% of the branches removed can in general deal with it. It will be weak afterwards. But if left alone for a year or two they rebounce well.
Maybe people mistake the pushing of growth all along the branches and all tips as recovery and work them then. I know I have been guilty of doing this with my first juniper styling. Not understanding why it did not develop. THen I left it alone for a full year. Runners formed the next spring and since there is no stopping it.

 

[Shogun610]

Well this Juniper Chinemsis certainly didn’t disappoint today. Had natural deadwood already in it that I brought out with a dremel (new favorite tool) , fired the deadwood still gotta seal it. The wiring was tough too but the general structure is down minus refined wiring. This is a semi cascade style