Beginner to bonsai, looking for advice on a tough material

Hi,

I've been lurking for a bit here and there, mainly catching up on the wealth of knowledge this forum has produced. I'm new to bonsai, and I have three trees: an Azalea from nursery stock, a Juniper I bought from Stone Lantern, and a Eastern White Pine I received from a good friend. I am located in the NW Chicago Burbs, and my previous plant experience mainly rests on philodendrons and various houseplants, as well as some cacti.

Naturally, I am reaching out for design advice on the Eastern White Pine (I know that many consider it a sub-standard material, but I do love a challenge). I am aware I need to re-wire it soon, as the current wiring is beginning to scare the branches. But I am completely lost on how to approach design for this specimen. I hope one of ya'll has some good insight for me .

I did see that I have some local resources I could also use: I see The Hidden Gardens Bonsai & Mark Karczewski offer evaluations every Saturday, and I see that the next Midwest Bonsai Society meeting is hosting Phil Mahliot to discuss difficult trees. I might do one or both events to gain some additional guidance and in-person feedback.

Any tips for EWP care are also appreciated!

For bonsai development the first step is to get the genetics correct. Why work with an Eastern Pine? The second step is trunk development. To do this you will make better progress by putting the tree in the ground or in large pots. It takes time and requires growing large branches (typically the leader). You may want to consider movement while possible (looks like you have done that) The third step is primary branch development. To look like an miniature old three the trunk should be much larger than the branches. This can be tricky of trees that don't back bud easily. The next step is to develop secondary branches and finally ramification. Each of these steps need to be done in order. No one masters bonsai. The best anyone can hope for is to approach mastery. This usually requires an apprenticeship preferably in Japan. Typically 5-6 years. Followed by decades of practice. Recognize where you are in the order of things and approach accordingly. Most professionals don't develop bonsai. It simply takes too long and the chance of getting things right usually requires starting with many trees. I suggest for now work on keeping your trees alive and healthy for several years. Doing that is usually a major achievement. If you want to begin your studies you will need to find a teacher. Without a teacher you will probably make more mistakes with more dead or poor quality trees. I suggest you look up and join your local bonsai club. Good luck.

The pine is not very good material for bonsai but, as it has been given to you I guess you should at least try to do something with it. You may never achieve a show winning bonsai but you should learn a few things during the journey.

The wires should have been removed a year ago. Don't wait, get them all off ASAP. A bonsai does not need wire to be a bonsai. Wire is just to hold the tree in the desired shape until it will stay of its own accord. Those wires have almost certainly been on long enough to make the bends permanent. They have certainly put almost permanent spiral marks in the trunk and branches which will look very distracting for the foreseeable future. Possibly too big of a problem to ever make this one worthwhile as bonsai.

There are always several different possibilities in any tree.
First decision is whether to go for a quicker option or spend longer trying for a better quality tree.
The longer term option is to grow to thicken the trunk. Likely a larger pot to allow growth but being careful not to let everything grow too long as pines do not usually bud on older, bare wood. That may mean eventually chopping most of the current trunk and regrowing a new trunk using one of the low branches.

For the quicker, less quality option you could start pruning to develop ramification of the existing branches. The trunk will stay thin but some people don't mind that.

Long, thin trunks can make good literati style bonsai. Literati means very few branches. Probably remove the 2 lower branches and use the next 2 or 3 for the tree. Remove the top section above those few branches too.

This is a literati progression as an example of what was described above.



Just for some ideas. Just a quick search I found this. It is not my work.

Mats Hagström said:

For bonsai development the first step is to get the genetics correct. Why work with an Eastern Pine? The second step is trunk development. To do this you will make better progress by putting the tree in the ground or in large pots. It takes time and requires growing large branches (typically the leader). You may want to consider movement while possible (looks like you have done that) The third step is primary branch development. To look like an miniature old three the trunk should be much larger than the branches. This can be tricky of trees that don't back bud easily. The next step is to develop secondary branches and finally ramification. Each of these steps need to be done in order. No one masters bonsai. The best anyone can hope for is to approach mastery. This usually requires an apprenticeship preferably in Japan. Typically 5-6 years. Followed by decades of practice. Recognize where you are in the order of things and approach accordingly. Most professionals don't develop bonsai. It simply takes too long and the chance of getting things right usually requires starting with many trees. I suggest for now work on keeping your trees alive and healthy for several years. Doing that is usually a major achievement. If you want to begin your studies you will need to find a teacher. Without a teacher you will probably make more mistakes with more dead or poor quality trees. I suggest you look up and join your local bonsai club. Good luck.

Click to expand...

I will definitely begin to attend the Bonsai society nearest to me. I certainly do not think I will ever approach mastery haha - this is just a hobby of mine, and hopefully through my enjoyment I also pick up some of the knowledge others share.

Shibui said:

The pine is not very good material for bonsai but, as it has been given to you I guess you should at least try to do something with it. You may never achieve a show winning bonsai but you should learn a few things during the journey.

The wires should have been removed a year ago. Don't wait, get them all off ASAP. A bonsai does not need wire to be a bonsai. Wire is just to hold the tree in the desired shape until it will stay of its own accord. Those wires have almost certainly been on long enough to make the bends permanent. They have certainly put almost permanent spiral marks in the trunk and branches which will look very distracting for the foreseeable future. Possibly too big of a problem to ever make this one worthwhile as bonsai.

There are always several different possibilities in any tree.
First decision is whether to go for a quicker option or spend longer trying for a better quality tree.
The longer term option is to grow to thicken the trunk. Likely a larger pot to allow growth but being careful not to let everything grow too long as pines do not usually bud on older, bare wood. That may mean eventually chopping most of the current trunk and regrowing a new trunk using one of the low branches.

For the quicker, less quality option you could start pruning to develop ramification of the existing branches. The trunk will stay thin but some people don't mind that.

Long, thin trunks can make good literati style bonsai. Literati means very few branches. Probably remove the 2 lower branches and use the next 2 or 3 for the tree. Remove the top section above those few branches too.

Click to expand...

I have read so much about the pine being meh for bonsai, but like you said I sorta feel like I need to at least do something. Wires have been removed! Hopefully the scars will fade over time.

I've given what you've written some thought. Since the EWP needles are quite long, it seems I should probably focus on trunk development/thickening (My assumption is that a thicker truck will make the needle length seem less unbalanced.) That said, could you please explain this part of your reply more?

but being careful not to let everything grow too long as pines do not usually bud on older, bare wood. That may mean eventually chopping most of the current trunk and regrowing a new trunk using one of the low branches.

Click to expand...

My interpretation of this is that when thickening the trunk, I have to try to control the branch length due to the lack of back-budding. Or if they do get to long, I'll have to chop off the trunk and use the lower branch as the new leader/main trunk line?

raumtraum said:

My interpretation of this is that when thickening the trunk, I have to try to control the branch length due to the lack of back-budding. Or if they do get to long, I'll have to chop off the trunk and use the lower branch as the new leader/main trunk line?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, controlling branch length will slow trunk thickening. We usually allow a 'sacrifice' branch to grow really long. All that growth will thicken the trunk (below where it joins) and the sacrifice will eventually be removed. Upside is quicker trunk thickening but downside is there will be a scar for some years. The bigger the sacrifice branch, the bigger the scar that's left after chopping.

Chopping a trunk and using one of the shorter branches as a replacement trunk is very common practice in developing bonsai. Provided that the branch already has a good line to become the new trunk or can be wired and bent into a suitable position.
Upside of this is often better bends and shape to the new trunk and much better taper in the new trunk. Downside is scars where we chop the old trunk.

Chop scars are not always a fault. Cuts hidden behind the new trunk or branches are not visible so not a problem. Sometimes scars can be developed into features as dead wood 'jins' or hollows in the trunks. It occurred to me that your wire marks could possibly be carved to leave a spiral shari up the trunk if they will not fade quickly enough.

raumtraum said:

I've given what you've written some thought. Since the EWP needles are quite long, it seems I should probably focus on trunk development/thickening (My assumption is that a thicker truck will make the needle length seem less unbalanced.) That said, could you please explain this part of your reply more?

Click to expand...

A thicker trunk will definitely help reduce the impact of the long needles. It usually also gives a more impressive bonsai as our minds equate trunk thickness with age so people automatically assume tall, thin trunks are young while fatter trunks appear to be older trees.
The process of achieving a thicker pine trunk is more complex that it first appears. To get thickening we need lots of growth which will add thicker growth rings each year or lots of time (more years of thinner growth rings) Downside of lots of growth is that most pines will not bud on older, bare parts of the tree so it you allow the tree or branches to get too long, it becomes difficult to prune back to a bonsai size. The actual process of fast growing pines varies from species to species so you'll need to get specific advice for EWP if you choose this route.

The picture above shows that literati style does not require a thick trunk. The beauty is in the bends and elongated trunk.
Longer needles will be a problem for scale but it is possible to cut pine needles short for exhibition purposes. Cut tips turn brown after a few days so needle cutting is not a permanent solution and some growers consider needle cutting cheating but it could be useful with your tree if you manage to get that far advanced.

Northwest Chicagoland! I grew up in St. Charles and my son currently lives in Madison. Go to some Midwest bonsai society meetings and sign up for a beginner workshop! They would love to have you and you will learn more in a single workshop than a year of books and podcasts!