Collected Elm

small trees · Mar 14, 2014

Today, I took my last final exam of the quarter, so I headed home. I was doing some yard work when I noticed this elm growing next to the deep well. It had been cut back a couple times but it seems I never noticed it. The leaves were just starting to come out, so I might be a tad bit late collecting it, but we'll see. I could use a positive ID from anyone who knows their elms (Google seems to think it's a Cedar Elm). Attached are pics of the tree as I found it, a close up of foliage, and after collection. Please excuse the "pot" in the next set of pictures, but it was handy and fit pretty well, where I otherwise would have had to go hunt something down.

small trees · Mar 14, 2014

Pictures as potted with 20 oz bottle for reference. Last picture is the anticipated front.

Poink88 · Mar 14, 2014

Wow, that looks really nice.

I will shorten the smaller branch a bit more...maybe half.

The taller one, I'll chop the reverse angle...hope to encourage growth to the right side.

small trees · Mar 14, 2014

Poink88 said:
Wow, that looks really nice.

I will shorten the smaller branch a bit more...maybe half. The taller one, I'll chop the reverse angle...hope to encourage growth to the right side.

Thanks! I was thinking about going out searching for something to collect, mainly just to relax, but this saved me the time.

I agree with shortening the smaller branch, but as far as the upper one, I was thinking of using the smaller branch to fill the right hand space, much like BVF filled the space on the left with a sub-trunk/large upward-growing branch.

What did you have in mind that would require right side branching from the main trunk?

Poink88 · Mar 14, 2014

GeorgiaBonsai said:
What did you have in mind that would require right side branching from the main trunk?

All the branches you have there right now are going to the left...it is easy to see that you need one to the right. Rather than forcing one later that will never look right...it is MUCH BETTER to encourage one that is properly located/positioned now.

That is just me though.

Poink88 · Mar 14, 2014

That tree by BVF is very nice but the portion you wanted to emulate is a fault (1 of 2) IMHO that need to be fixed.

This is just my opinion and I hope I do not get a violent reaction again. No disrespect to BVF either. His ramification work on that is excellent...I just do not like that branch where it is. Maybe it is just my personal taste.

I should learn to shut up. Really.

small trees · Mar 14, 2014

Poink88 said:
All the branches you have there right now are going to the left...it is easy to see that you need one to the right. Rather than forcing one later that will never look right...it is MUCH BETTER to encourage one that is properly located/positioned now.

That is just me though.

That's because the current right side was facing the well

Shouldn't I get backbudding on that side with any luck at all anyway? Would reversing the chop make any difference?

Poink88 said:
That tree by BVF is very nice but the portion you wanted to emulate is a fault (1 of 2) IMHO that need to be fixed.

This is just my opinion and I hope I do not get a violent reaction again. No disrespect to BVF either. His ramification work on that is excellent...I just do not like that branch where it is. Maybe it is just my personal taste.

I should learn to shut up. Really.

I saw a saying somewhere "Never apologize for having an opinion, apologize if you've expressed it rudely."

I believe he was working on shortening that branch and wiring some others into that space actually.

FWIW, I thought it was innovative and interesting.

Poink88 · Mar 14, 2014

GeorgiaBonsai said:
Shouldn't I get backbudding on that side with any luck at all anyway? Would reversing the chop make any difference?

IF it is Cedar Elm, You should get more buds than you need. Some donot believe it matters but I think it influences where the buds will sprout based on a few of mine.

You can also leave it as-is, let it run wild this season then next year chop it back hard. It will force so many buds, you will be rubbing them off left and right.

small trees · Mar 14, 2014

Poink88 said:
IF it is Cedar Elm, You should get more buds than you need. Some donot believe it matters but I think it influences where the buds will sprout based on a few of mine.

You can also leave it as-is, let it run wild this season then next year chop it back hard. It will force so many buds, you will be rubbing them off left and right.

I think I will let it grow this year and do like you said, reassessing if I need to. I may shorten the smaller branch tomorrow.

edprocoat · Mar 14, 2014

It should be fine Elms are like the old Timex watches, they can take a licking and keep on ticking.

ed

travislivid · Mar 15, 2014

This does not look like cedar elm to me. The bark is not right.

small trees · Mar 15, 2014

travislivid said:
This does not look like cedar elm to me. The bark is not right.

Any idea what it could be then?

Poink88 · Mar 15, 2014

travislivid said:
This does not look like cedar elm to me. The bark is not right.

The same reason I have a big IF on my post. I'm not sure what this is myself.

Don Blackmond · Mar 15, 2014

GeorgiaBonsai said:
Any idea what it could be then?

looks like an American Elm.
As far as design, I'd consider removing the thick trunk and making your tree out of the secondary trunk.

small trees · Mar 15, 2014

I went out and looked around for the parent tree. This is the closest I could find. Here are pics of leaf and bark comparison. I peeled off a tiny bit of bark from the back of the collected tree to show what was under it.

Parent tree:

Collected tree:

Sorry I didn't get close up pictures of the leaves of each, but I examined them and the veins have the same pattern, the leaves have the same serration pattern, etc. Chinese Elm?

small trees · Mar 15, 2014

Don Blackmond said:
looks like an American Elm.
As far as design, I'd consider removing the thick trunk and making your tree out of the secondary trunk.

There was an American Elm nearby, but from what I read online American Elm fruits in the spring, when this tree did not. I actually took pictures of the American Elm but it only had fruit with no hint of leaves yet.

Paulsur · Mar 15, 2014

If that's the parent tree and its entirely possible that it is, then you have some variety of Chinese elm. Very common as landscape trees especially in the southern part of the country, because they are tolerant of so many things. I agree with the suggestion to chop to the secondary trunk. Make your chop after careful consideration, perhaps a few verts here to discuss before you chop. Maybe make your final chop next year, and keep as is for now.

small trees · Mar 15, 2014

Paulsur said:
If that's the parent tree and its entirely possible that it is, then you have some variety of Chinese elm. Very common as landscape trees especially in the southern part of the country, because they are tolerant of so many things. I agree with the suggestion to chop to the secondary trunk. Make your chop after careful consideration, perhaps a few verts here to discuss before you chop. Maybe make your final cop next year, and keep as is for now.

There are American and Chinese Elms on the property. It could be either one. I will try to make some virts, but if anyone else has the time or cares to make some themselves, I would appreciate it as I only have paint at my disposal.

Dav4 · Mar 16, 2014

Paulsur said:
If that's the parent tree and its entirely possible that it is, then you have some variety of Chinese elm. Very common as landscape trees especially in the southern part of the country, because they are tolerant of so many things. I agree with the suggestion to chop to the secondary trunk. Make your chop after careful consideration, perhaps a few verts here to discuss before you chop. Maybe make your final cop next year, and keep as is for now.

I agree...Chinese elm was my first thought after seeing the bark and leaves.

small trees · Mar 16, 2014

Dav4 said:
I agree...Chinese elm was my first thought after seeing the bark and leaves.

I think I'm going to approach it as such. I appreciate the help guys.

edit: Working on a paint virt of using the smaller trunk as the main trunk. Will edit this post with it in a minute.

Don and Paul, is this roughly what you guys were thinking?

Collected Elm

Chumono

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