A good "Southern" aggregate component?

[jkd2572]

My mix can't last two days in the summer So when away when it's 100 plus everything is in the shade with automatic watering twice a day to be on the safe side. Too much water in the winter is not a problem as I can cover for that. Never had root rot, but have had plants burn up..... People that don't understand the heat extremes down here don't understand. Don't get me wrong I know someone with 300 plus trees in boons mix that get the automatic watering four times a day here in august. If I planted all my trees in that mix it would cost me $1000 a year at repotting season..... And I really don't see the difference in the health of their trees and mine. Although they swear it's a must for plant health. Different strokes for different folks. I don't think anyone is wrong if they know what they are doing for their climate. And I think it's funny that the 70 year old oak in my front yard has not had its roots rotted off in hard packed clay during the winter when my trees in pots with well drained soil have not either. I do understand that oak has a lot of aggregate down low, but so do my little trees.

 

[bwaynef]

And I think it's funny that the 70 year old oak in my front yard has not had its roots rotted off in hard packed clay during the winter when my trees in pots with well drained soil have not either. I do understand that oak has a lot of aggregate down low, but so do my little trees.

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/earthpot.htm

 

[nip]

No, I have went out there a couple of times and it has been closed. I connected with MSGCBS at a garden show last weekend. They told me Turface and Haydite, but I am not sure where I could get Haydite either, but I'm going to Day of Bonsai in Mobile in a couple of weeks and I'm going to talk to some people there about soil components.

That bonsai shop has been there at least a decade, but it closed for probably 5 years. It was recently reopened and the owner started to add some new material. But most of the stock is overgrown with weeds and in poor health. It's a very strange situation, the guy rarely opens. I just happened to catch him on a day he was open last year. I remember him having a pile of small pebbles and other soil materials.

Th Day of Bonsai will be a big help. I might see you there.

 

[greenman63]

My mix can't last two days in the summer So when away when it's 100 plus everything is in the shade with automatic watering twice a day to be on the safe side. Too much water in the winter is not a problem as I can cover for that. Never had root rot, but have had plants burn up..... People that don't understand the heat extremes down here don't understand. Don't get me wrong I know someone with 300 plus trees in boons mix that get the automatic watering four times a day here in august. If I planted all my trees in that mix it would cost me $1000 a year at repotting season..... And I really don't see the difference in the health of their trees and mine. Although they swear it's a must for plant health. Different strokes for different folks. I don't think anyone is wrong if they know what they are doing for their climate.

I agree, I use a mix of native soil (mostly sand) with pine bark, red lava rock and gritty gravel, possibly some topsoil or even potting soil mixed in to hold moisture longer for the really hot days. I also have lots of trays of water that I will allow the smaller pots to sit inside or they'll dry up and die in half a day. I don't yet have a good place for part sun or part shade for all my pots that need it, so I rotate them in and out of the sunny spots as best I can and make sure they never really go dry but still get plenty of sun. If I were to use the recommended media I'd have to water far more often, but I still water at least once a day for most of my bonsai. Some I can get away with less, but summer is always a time of high-vigilance. And my trees are as healthy as can be!

 

[CamdenJim]

Sifting soil is one thing, but it will be a cold day in hell before I try to break up large lava rock chunks into uniformly usable material. I think it's worth it to pay a little more to get lava in an already usable form. Just my opinion.

Having tried that approach once, I agree with you. But I'm looking for someone with a machine that can do that for me. Just to show it can be done!

 

[markyscott]

...
Don't get me wrong I know someone with 300 plus trees in boons mix that get the automatic watering four times a day here in august. If I planted all my trees in that mix it would cost me $1000 a year at repotting season.....

You must have a quite extensive collection. 40 gallons of Boons mix (5.3 cubic feet) costs me around $180. That's $15/ cubic foot for pumice, $15/cubic foot for lava, $30/ 1/2 cubic foot for akadama. I have about 100 trees and that generally lasts me for a full year. You must go through an entire yard of soil in a growing season for it to cost you $1000. Quite impressive.

-Scott

 

[Poink88]

Scott,

I wish I can get those at that price. My "village" is not as interested in joining on the group buy so it may never happen. Thanks for the lead anyway.

 

[markyscott]

Scott,

I wish I can get those at that price. My "village" is not as interested in joining on the group buy so it may never happen. Thanks for the lead anyway.

I'll let you know the next time we make an order. Austin is not that far from Houston. And Southwest Fertilizer here in town has started selling lava rock. Timeless Trees sells Akadama

Scott

 

[jkd2572]

You must have a quite extensive collection. 40 gallons of Boons mix (5.3 cubic feet) costs me around $180. That's $15/ cubic foot for pumice, $15/cubic foot for lava, $30/ 1/2 cubic foot for akadama. I have about 100 trees and that generally lasts me for a full year. You must go through an entire yard of soil in a growing season for it to cost you $1000. Quite impressive.

-Scott

I have one tree that took more than 40 gallons of soil to repot. So yes.

 

[jkd2572]

You must have a quite extensive collection. 40 gallons of Boons mix (5.3 cubic feet) costs me around $180. That's $15/ cubic foot for pumice, $15/cubic foot for lava, $30/ 1/2 cubic foot for akadama. I have about 100 trees and that generally lasts me for a full year. You must go through an entire yard of soil in a growing season for it to cost you $1000. Quite impressive.

-Scott

I have one tree that took more than 40 gallons of soil to repot. So yes. Boons mix cost about 80 bucks for a 5 gallon bucket here.

 

[markyscott]

I have one tree that took more than 40 gallons of soil to repot. So yes. Boons mix cost about 80 bucks for a 5 gallon bucket here.

Yep - I have big trees too. Stinks on years those bad boys need to be repotted. Glad it's not every year. As for the factor of five increase in price between Dallas and Houston, I have no explanation. Latitude tax maybe? All I can say is that 40 gallons of bonsai soil will cost some money no matter what the substrate. Turface is about $15 per cubic foot plus tax, so 40 gallons of that would be nearly $90 - about 1/2 what I pay for Boons mix. So there's some savings there. I might need it myself to pay the water bill - I can chew up the money I spend on soil really quick going through 100 gallons or so of water a day in the summer.

Scott

 

[sbarnhardt]

I'm reading this with interest and have a question. Stalite/Permatill has a production facility here in our county. At least to my very limited experience, it would appear that the Permatill would be relatively interchangeable with Stall Dry/pumice.

Here is a link to their "Permatill" page of their website. It has facts, figures, photo, etc. if you are interested. I'm not trying to promote them and have absolutely no financial interest in the company. Just trying to think about a possible source of material.

http://www.permatill.com/home-garden-products.php?cat=8

 

[Stan Kengai]

I'm reading this with interest and have a question. Stalite/Permatill has a production facility here in our county. At least to my very limited experience, it would appear that the Permatill would be relatively interchangeable with Stall Dry/pumice.

Here is a link to their "Permatill" page of their website. It has facts, figures, photo, etc. if you are interested. I'm not trying to promote them and have absolutely no financial interest in the company. Just trying to think about a possible source of material.

http://www.permatill.com/home-garden-products.php?cat=8

I use permatil as a substitute for large size pumice, and think it is pretty comparable to it. It ranges in size from about 1/8" to 3/8", so it's larger that Dry Stall. It is heavier than pumice, so it doesn't hold as much water, but it also does float or crush like Dry Stall. The only thing I don't like about it is the drab gray color.

 

[drew33998]

Bump

Wanted to bump this. I have been researching this and wanted to add some info I have found. I bought a bag and will use it in my soil mix this spring. I am thinking Calidama, Permatill, and bark fines. It is also high fired above 2000 deg F.

Bio-retention:

What makes Stalite better than regular stone for this application?
The Stalite contains voids for additional surface area for fine feeder roots, air space, water and nutrient retention. With its high water release curves and cation-exchage-capacity of 20 to 25 me/100g, roots can grow in 100% of the expanded aggregate without added soil. Plus it is lightweight and easy to mix and work with

How does PermaTill affect the water needs and leaching of fertilizer from the root zone?
PermaTill does improve drainage, however, the particles are 6% absorbent for moisture storage. The particles also have a high CEC or nutrient holding capacity (26.9) so the particles will store the water-soluble nutrients for the roots to take up. Remember this: Roots follow moisture down into the soil. They grow at the surface when there is not enough air present deeper in the soil. With PermaTill amended soils the roots will stay deeper and therefore reduce water needs and your water bill.

What makes Stalite better than regular stone for this application?
The Stalite contains voids for additional surface area for fine feeder roots, air space, water and nutrient retention. With its high water release curves and cation-exchage-capacity of 20 to 25 me/100g, roots can grow in 100% of the expanded aggregate without added soil. Plus it is lightweight and easy to mix and work with

 

[Bunjeh]

Chicken grit.

Interesting? Do you mean the crushed oyster shells?

 

[Dav4]

Interesting? Do you mean the crushed oyster shells?

No. You need to avoid chicken grit that has oyster shell in it...too alkaline.

 

[sbarnhardt]

No. You need to avoid chicken grit that has oyster shell in it...too alkaline.

My grandmother used to feed her laying chickens crushed oyster shell. Said it strengthened the egg shells. Calcium I'm thinking?

 

[Dav4]

My grandmother used to feed her laying chickens crushed oyster shell. Said it strengthened the egg shells. Calcium I'm thinking?

right....

 

[Adair M]

Chicken "eat" grit to store it in their gizzards. They use it to help grind up food.

 

[Dav4]

The chickens eat the grit to help with grinding up the vegetable matter they consume. The granite only grits is fine as a soil component, but the grit with oyster shell, which is a great source of calcium for egg laying birds, will also screw up your soil chemistry.