A question to the pro's

[Warpig]

To name a few, @MACH5 @Walter Pall @River's Edge @Adair M @Smoke @0soyoung ,theres Many more and I leave the question open to all.

After all these years of practicing bonsai, and so many trees in your care, do you dream of a planting you want to create without ever seeing a tree yet? Trust me, I get the whole find a good tree and listen to what it wants to be side of it. Its a big part of the art. But is there that planting in the back of your head that you're always on the lookout for? It might be that mighty oak planting that you are always looking for? Or is it just too hard to realistically see that through?

 

[River's Edge]

To name a few, @MACH5 @Walter Pall @River's Edge @Adair M @Smoke @0soyoung ,theres Many more and I leave the question open to all.

After all these years of practicing bonsai, and so many trees in your care, do you dream of a planting you want to create without ever seeing a tree yet? Trust me, I get the whole find a good tree and listen to what it wants to be side of it. Its a big part of the art. But is there that planting in the back of your head that you're always on the lookout for? It might be that mighty oak planting that you are always looking for? Or is it just too hard to realistically see that through?

Not for me. When i started out the tendency was to find something to fit an image that i liked or wished to create. The tendency still comes up when i spot something incredible in natural settings! For example a truly wind swept form. But that is more appreciation for the natural form and studying the detail that creates the image.
I do not think it would be difficult to capture an image conjured up in ones mind, given the appropriate level of experience, training and creativity!
For me the essence of Bonsai is capturing the best the material has to offer and the joy in maintaining the art form as it evolves.
In a sense matching an image seems artificial and constrained, probably better obtained with static material that remains true to the original vision.
Bonsai requires re invention, adaptation, acceptance of change, multiple visions.
Having said that, the process always involves a plan or image that one works toward. The best example i can give of this is the pictures recorded of the same tree over decades as it becomes a known "Show" example styled by various professionals in varying images.

 

[Adair M]

Kinda... there are styles I’ve wanted. For example, if you look thru the Kokofu books, you’ll see examples of what I call “Japanese White Pine Exposed Root Semi-Cascade” trees. Well, I like them and it took me a long time before I found one. And now I have two of them, so I don’t need another! Lol!!!

There’s lots of folks who would like to have a forest like John Naka’s “Goshin”, as another example.

But as a general rule, I try to work with the best material I can find.

I started a thread on my Colorado Blue Spruce. I bought it because it was a raft, and I didn’t have one. Upon study, it became apparent to me that it needs to be styled as a windswept. I wasn’t planning on that! But, if I can pull it off, it would fill a whole in my collection.

 

[Cadillactaste]

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Kinda... there are styles I’ve wanted. For example, if you look thru the Kokofu books, you’ll see examples of what I call “Japanese White Pine Exposed Root Semi-Cascade” trees. Well, I like them and it took me a long time before I found one. And now I have two of them, so I don’t need another! Lol!!!

There’s lots of folks who would like to have a forest like John Naka’s “Goshin”, as another example.

But as a general rule, I try to work with the best material I can find.

I started a thread on my Colorado Blue Spruce. I bought it because it was a raft, and I didn’t have one. Upon study, it became apparent to me that it needs to be styled as a windswept. I wasn’t planning on that! But, if I can pull it off, it would fill a whole in my collection.

Two exposed root pine... dude is there even such thing as a limit to Neagari? Lol

 

[Forsoothe!]

I agree with @River's Edge. The practice of bonsai is more like coaching trees to be their best than it is custom manufacturing to a specific design.

 

[Warpig]

All good info guys thank you, great food for thought. If anyone else has anything they want to add please feel free too.

 

[MACH5]

@Warpig I definitely have my taste and preferences for bonsai forms. I am highly drawn to bonsai that evoke distant images of trees in nature. I tend not to be as drawn towards those trees that represent "closer" views. This is the case with many big collected ponderosas and such. As exciting and impressive as they may be they don't look like large trees in nature to me, but rather are more stylized and cleaned up versions of a wild tree just a few feet away from me. So the material that I usually purchase tends to offer that sort of potential.

With that said, I also like to make happy exceptions. A couple of months ago I purchased a shohin trident that is basically a large cone with dramatic taper. It was imported from Japan. I generally shy away from trees like this but as Adair mentioned, this tree filled a hole in my garden. I din't have anything like it. I never would design a deciduous tree in this style but I also appreciate the skill, time and effort it took to make it into what it is. Moving forward I have no desire in changing the course that was set for it. It shall remain a cone!

 

[Cadillactaste]

@Warpig I definitely have my taste and preferences for bonsai forms. I am highly drawn to bonsai that evoke distant images of trees in nature. I tend not to be as drawn towards those trees that represent "closer" views. This is the case with many big collected ponderosas and such. As exciting and impressive as they may be they don't look like large trees in nature to me, but rather are more stylized and cleaned up versions of a wild tree just a few feet away from me. So the material that I usually purchase tends to offer that sort of potential.

With that said, I also like to make happy exceptions. A couple of months ago I purchased a shohin trident that is basically a large cone with dramatic taper. It was imported from Japan. I generally shy away from trees like this but as Adair mentioned, this tree filled a hole in my garden. I din't have anything like it. I never would design a deciduous tree in this style but I also appreciate the skill, time and effort it took to make it into what it is. Moving forward I have no desire in changing the course that was set for it. It shall remain a cone!

Would love to see this tree. My mind can't comprehend it. I was just thinking about this today...does anyone purchase a tree for what it evokes and not wish to change it in some drastic way to feel like they are making it more theirs. Loved that the tree evoked to keep it as is. Thanks Sergio for this post.

 

[MACH5]

Would love to see this tree. My mind can't comprehend it. I was just thinking about this today...does anyone purchase a tree for what it evokes and not wish to change it in some drastic way to feel like they are making it more theirs. Loved that the tree evoked to keep it as is. Thanks Sergio for this post.

Darlene, I believe there is a time for us to check our egos at the door and respect a tree for what it is and not try and make it "your own" or something that's not meant to be. I have many trees that I did not create per se but intend to use whatever skills I have to take them forward and make them the best they can be. While there are others that have received a lot more from me. It's all good. Ultimately, it's not about you, it's about the trees. At least that's my take

 

[Cadillactaste]

Darlene, I believe there is a time for us to check our egos at the door and respect a tree for what it is and not try and make it "your own" or something that's not meant to be. I have many trees that I did not create per se but intend to use whatever skills I have to take them forward and make them the best they can be. While there are others that have received a lot more from me. It's all good. Ultimately, it's not about you, it's about the trees. At least that's my take

I agree that taking a tree to its full potential is part of this hobby. Gosh that air layer clump was masterful and not really what I meant. Because you improved what was there.

But, some try so hard that you don't see anything left. I've seen character removed, that I sort of cringe at. Wondering why...they ruined what the tree was whispering. Your trees are above par my friend...You were not in that classification I wondered about. But that you are above par...and found something that evoked keeping. Yeah...you got it. You definitely don't need to prove anything to any ego. But that you found something...that sunk it's teeth into you. That evoked something you don't normally do. Yeah...I just "needed" to hear that more than you know. It just touched upon something I was chewing over. It's a rainy maudlin day...but your post was a pick me up.



But...sometimes something surely evokes them to just shine what is there.

 

[MACH5]

I agree that taking a tree to its full potential is part of this hobby. Gosh that air layer clump was masterful and not really what I meant. Because you improved what was there.

But, some try so hard that you don't see anything left. I've seen character removed, that I sort of cringe at. Wondering why...they ruined what the tree was whispering. Your trees are above par my friend...You were not in that classification I wondered about. But that you are above par...and found something that evoked keeping. Yeah...you got it. You definitely don't need to prove anything to any ego. But that you found something...that sunk it's teeth into you. That evoked something you don't normally do. Yeah...I just "needed" to hear that more than you know. It just touched upon something I was chewing over. It's a rainy maudlin day...but your post was a pick me up.



But...sometimes something surely evokes them to just shine what is there.

No worries at all. I understood the intent of your post. Nothing I took personally

 

[Adair M]

I agree that taking a tree to its full potential is part of this hobby. Gosh that air layer clump was masterful and not really what I meant. Because you improved what was there.

But, some try so hard that you don't see anything left. I've seen character removed, that I sort of cringe at. Wondering why...they ruined what the tree was whispering. Your trees are above par my friend...You were not in that classification I wondered about. But that you are above par...and found something that evoked keeping. Yeah...you got it. You definitely don't need to prove anything to any ego. But that you found something...that sunk it's teeth into you. That evoked something you don't normally do. Yeah...I just "needed" to hear that more than you know. It just touched upon something I was chewing over. It's a rainy maudlin day...but your post was a pick me up.



But...sometimes something surely evokes them to just shine what is there.

Sometimes you change a “finished” tree, sometimes you don’t. Sometimes something happens to an established tree that causes you to have to rework it.

I purchased a JWP that had been styled by Peter Tea. I respect his work and admired the tree, but I saw there was more than the usual amount of cut paste up near the apex. I bought it anyway. Well, with a month or so, the apex died. He had broken it while wiring it, and unfortunately, it didn’t heal itself.

So, a year later, I restyled it. Completely changed the front, and fashioned a new apex. It’s been 5 years, and you would never know it once had a dead apex.

I liked the original style. I wouldn’t have changed except for the problem with the apex. I still think of it as my “Peter Tea tree”, even though the current style looks nothing like the way Peter had it.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Sometimes you change a “finished” tree, sometimes you don’t. Sometimes something happens to an established tree that causes you to have to rework it.

I purchased a JWP that had been styled by Peter Tea. I respect his work and admired the tree, but I saw there was more than the usual amount of cut paste up near the apex. I bought it anyway. Well, with a month or so, the apex died. He had broken it while wiring it, and unfortunately, it didn’t heal itself.

So, a year later, I restyled it. Completely changed the front, and fashioned a new apex. It’s been 5 years, and you would never know it once had a dead apex.

I liked the original style. I wouldn’t have changed except for the problem with the apex. I still think of it as my “Peter Tea tree”, even though the current style looks nothing like the way Peter had it.

Life happens...and we have to make lemonade. Your tree, I didn't even know about. Sucks...but as you say had it still been on Peter's bench he would have had to make similar decisions.