ammonium sulfate

August44

August44

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What is ammonium sulfate generally used for in bonsai? It is high in Nitrogen, no P, no K and high in sulfate. Thanks for help, Peter
 
Nitrogen is probably the main answer. The sulphate should help to acidify the soil for trees that prefer a lower ph - azaleas, pines, etc.
 
Try keeping ammonium stable as a salt without the sulphate.. You can't. It will just evaporate, like with an ammonia solution.

Sulphate is used in plant nutrient salts because it has the least interactions/disturbances. It's a helper, nothing more.

To affect the pH, something needs to take up or donate either hydrogen or hydroxide.
 
Great for grass, not much use in bonsai....
 
Agree with Smoke. Far better to use a balanced fertiliser with all the nutrients in the required amounts, especially in small pots. Ammonium sulphate is really strong. Miscalculation in dose could cause damage. Without other nutrients plants cannot take up N so extra N is wasted and runoff can cause other problems in soils, rivers and groundwater.
 
Ya' all wrong.

Ammonium sulfate is a fertilizer.

#1 - Ammonium ion - Most plants absorb ammonium directly out of water solution, without expending any energy to get it. Acid loving plants prefer their nitrogen to come in the form of ammonium. Particularly the ericaceous plants like blueberries. Blueberries are do not take up nitrogen from nitrates very well at all. Blueberries prefer ammonium as their main nitrogen source. Nitrates require active metabolic activity by the plant to be absorbed and brought into the tissues of the plant. This absorption requires the use of some potassium, and some ATP, the phosphorous based energy transport molecule plants create to move energy around. There is a metabolic cost to using nitrates as a nitrogen source. Ammonium is absorbed and transported around the plant tissues without the use of any metabolic energy. Some species of plants, like blueberries, carnivorous plants and other so called ''acid loving plants'', have abandoned spending energy on the mechanisms for importing nitrogen as nitrates and rely solely on ammonium ion uptake either through their roots, as in blueberries, or through their bug traps as in carnivorous plants. Something to remember, more is not always better. In aquatic systems, ammonium ions in concentrations above 40 ppm can begin to have toxic effects on fish and aquatic invertebrates. At some number above this concentration, plants will begin to have trouble. So when I dose ammonium sulfate I keep the concentration relatively low. I will fertilize more frequently at the lower dose. A useful tool is the fertilizer calculator available on First Ray's website, by Ray Barkalow.
Fertilizer TDS Calculator
[URL]https://firstrays.com/free-inf...ion-of-fertilizers/fertilizer-tds-calculator/ [/url]

You can plug into the calculator which element you want to have determine the dose rate for your fertilizer, plug in the other information required, and it will give you the amount you should add per unit of water. I generally use 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of my 12-1-4 fertilizer and it yields about 80 ppm per gallon as nitrate.

with ammonium sulfate one half teaspoon per gallon will give you roughly 130 ppm as ammonium. I have found this dose to be perfectly safe with my azaleas, blueberries and what is left over gets fed to the pines, crab apples and everything else.

#2 - Sulfate is the source of sulfur. Sulfur is an essential plant nutrient required in quantities GREATER than the amount of phosphorous a plant requires. This means sulfur is actually a MACRO-NUTRIENT, rather than a micro-nutrient. Most areas of the world, the soil has enough native sulfur, and most areas air pollution is a big enough issue that the mix of sulfur oxides in acid rain are a large enough of a source of sulfur we do not often have to worry about supplementing sulfur to our plants.

However, in a greenhouse situation, with inert substrates, and no acid rain, there can be a significant sulfur deficiency. Also modern ''complete'' commercial fertilizers that include calcium in their nutrient formula can not have sulfur in the same formulation with a calcium source - because as the calcium ion comes in contact with a sulfate ion, they will precipitate out of solution and form a relatively inert particle of calcium sulfate - commonly known as gypsum. This making both the calcium and sulfur unavailable to the plant roots.

So, as a fertilizer, ammonium sulfate is both an excellent nitrogen source, and an excellent method of providing sulfur to your plants. Most ''Acid Plant Foods" will have zero calcium and have some ammonium and some sulfates of one type or another.

Elemental sulfur in contact with water will make weak forms of sulfonic acid, in small amounts, to provide a steady, slow source of acidification. Adding elemental sulfur to a potting mix will help keep the mix acidic. Ammonium sulfate won't do much for the acidification of the soil, but as mentioned above, plants thought of as ''acid loving'' really do prefer this type of a nutrient source.

Both ammonium sulfate and elemental sulfur tend to be sold in full line nurseries where they cater to organic vegetable growers. Also sold in commercial orientated agriculture supply stores. Both are cheap compared to the fancy water soluble fertilizers sold to home gardeners.


In summary as @Smoke said, for majority of bonsai growers, it is not very useful. However, for a small few, who either grow in a situation where there is a need for supplementing sulfur, or are growing plants that need ammonium as their nitrogen source, it is a useful, and inexpensive product to have available.
 
Leo in N E Illinois said:
Ya' all wrong.

Ammonium sulfate is a fertilizer.

#1 - Ammonium ion - Most plants absorb ammonium directly out of water solution, without expending any energy to get it. Acid loving plants prefer their nitrogen to come in the form of ammonium. Particularly the ericaceous plants like blueberries. Blueberries are do not take up nitrogen from nitrates very well at all. Blueberries prefer ammonium as their main nitrogen source. Nitrates require active metabolic activity by the plant to be absorbed and brought into the tissues of the plant. This absorption requires the use of some potassium, and some ATP, the phosphorous based energy transport molecule plants create to move energy around. There is a metabolic cost to using nitrates as a nitrogen source. Ammonium is absorbed and transported around the plant tissues without the use of any metabolic energy. Some species of plants, like blueberries, carnivorous plants and other so called ''acid loving plants'', have abandoned spending energy on the mechanisms for importing nitrogen as nitrates and rely solely on ammonium ion uptake either through their roots, as in blueberries, or through their bug traps as in carnivorous plants. Something to remember, more is not always better. In aquatic systems, ammonium ions in concentrations above 40 ppm can begin to have toxic effects on fish and aquatic invertebrates. At some number above this concentration, plants will begin to have trouble. So when I dose ammonium sulfate I keep the concentration relatively low. I will fertilize more frequently at the lower dose. A useful tool is the fertilizer calculator available on First Ray's website, by Ray Barkalow.
Fertilizer TDS Calculator
[URL]https://firstrays.com/free-information/feeding-and-watering/measurement-handling-application-of-fertilizers/fertilizer-tds-calculator/ [/url]

You can plug into the calculator which element you want to have determine the dose rate for your fertilizer, plug in the other information required, and it will give you the amount you should add per unit of water. I generally use 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of my 12-1-4 fertilizer and it yields about 80 ppm per gallon as nitrate.

with ammonium sulfate one half teaspoon per gallon will give you roughly 130 ppm as ammonium. I have found this dose to be perfectly safe with my azaleas, blueberries and what is left over gets fed to the pines, crab apples and everything else.

#2 - Sulfate is the source of sulfur. Sulfur is an essential plant nutrient required in quantities GREATER than the amount of phosphorous a plant requires. This means sulfur is actually a MACRO-NUTRIENT, rather than a micro-nutrient. Most areas of the world, the soil has enough native sulfur, and most areas air pollution is a big enough issue that the mix of sulfur oxides in acid rain are a large enough of a source of sulfur we do not often have to worry about supplementing sulfur to our plants.

However, in a greenhouse situation, with inert substrates, and no acid rain, there can be a significant sulfur deficiency. Also modern ''complete'' commercial fertilizers that include calcium in their nutrient formula can not have sulfur in the same formulation with a calcium source - because as the calcium ion comes in contact with a sulfate ion, they will precipitate out of solution and form a relatively inert particle of calcium sulfate - commonly known as gypsum. This making both the calcium and sulfur unavailable to the plant roots.

So, as a fertilizer, ammonium sulfate is both an excellent nitrogen source, and an excellent method of providing sulfur to your plants. Most ''Acid Plant Foods" will have zero calcium and have some ammonium and some sulfates of one type or another.

Elemental sulfur in contact with water will make weak forms of sulfonic acid, in small amounts, to provide a steady, slow source of acidification. Adding elemental sulfur to a potting mix will help keep the mix acidic. Ammonium sulfate won't do much for the acidification of the soil, but as mentioned above, plants thought of as ''acid loving'' really do prefer this type of a nutrient source.

Both ammonium sulfate and elemental sulfur tend to be sold in full line nurseries where they cater to organic vegetable growers. Also sold in commercial orientated agriculture supply stores. Both are cheap compared to the fancy water soluble fertilizers sold to home gardeners.


In summary as @Smoke said, for majority of bonsai growers, it is not very useful. However, for a small few, who either grow in a situation where there is a need for supplementing sulfur, or are growing plants that need ammonium as their nitrogen source, it is a useful, and inexpensive product to have available.
Click to expand...
As you probably know better than anyone here,blueberries love it.
It also is what you amend the soil for hydrangeas to make them blue.
 
Interesting...I thought all fertilizer was derived from ammonia????
 
Smoke said:
If your a snowflake, probably not. Better get used to it, 5.5 more years to go....
Click to expand...
not a snowflake at all, I just don't care for hate mongering scumbag criminals is all. And no I didn't vote for that creep Hillary either. Went down the ballot. Really wish there were a none of the above box. That idiot will be lucky if he lasts 5.5 more months.
 
JoeH said:
not a snowflake at all, I just don't care for hate mongering scumbag criminals is all. And no I didn't vote for that creep Hillary either. Went down the ballot. Really wish there were a none of the above box. That idiot will be lucky if he lasts 5.5 more months.
Click to expand...
Well fortunately for me enough of America see's if differently than you and makes the responsible choice with what they have to choose from. You might not like the choices, but the alternative is frightening as well. I didn't like Obama at all, but I respected the office, and he won fair and square. I have more respect for the office than you do.

Just think, in less than two years you will get to choose between Bernie, Trump or Joe. What will you do then? I hear Venezuela is a nice place to live.....
 
Smoke said:
Well fortunately for me enough of America see's if differently than you and makes the responsible choice with what they have to choose from. You might not like the choices, but the alternative is frightening as well. I didn't like Obama at all, but I respected the office, and he won fair and square. I have more respect for the office than you do.

Just think, in less than two years you will get to choose between Bernie, Trump or Joe. What will you do then? I hear Venezuela is a nice place to live.....
Click to expand...


Oh...and say hi to Rush for me, I hear they are playing golf together today...
 
If I have to choose between Trump and an avowed socialist who expects me to pay at least three times more in taxes than I already do, Im voting for Trump.

Leo, when is your book coming out? The one you're writing that explains all the mysteries of the universe?
 
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