Another Humic acid thread...

[Poink88]

I was intrigued by humic acid and bought some...initially a solution from a local hydroponic store then powder since it is much cheaper.

The powder form is TeraVita SP-90 (no affiliation just what I ended up buying) from Amazon. SP-90 is supposedly 90% humic and is 100% water soluble.

It did not come with instruction for application rate so I "winged" it. Another B-nut member and I have been conversing via PM since we are both lost LOL....sharing what we gathered from the posts and from the vendor but it was insufficient.

I decided to contact the manufacturer and I am sharing the response below...in case anyone decides to go through the same route I/we did.

Good luck and I hope this helps someone.

P.S. I took a snap shot of the "Influence" product he referred to and it does look promising.

Please proceed with caution and as Smoke alluded to...too much humic can & will kill plants!!! Better thread on the side of caution.

=========================================
Dario,

We typically leave email responses up to the re-sellers of our products, unless we sell direct to the end users, whereby we would then fully service the account as would be expected.

So, I’ll try to make this easy and brief…

Humates are VERY complex substances, and the rates of usage vary widely for differing crops & conditions, so labels are intentionally vague and are geared “toward the middle”; otherwise, we’d have to offer a book with every package, if our desire is to be truly accurate…

The best way to use SP-90, to avoid any over-application potential, would be to add 1/8th to 1/4 teaspoon of SP-90 to a gallon of water, and use this mixture to water the plants as you normally would do.

Anything beyond this recommendation would require our conversing over the phone to elicit bonsai-specific details that would help achieve a more dialed-in recommendation.

One last thing: someday down the road, you may think about trying our Influence product (see label attached); something tells me this product could work very well for bonsai growers.

P.S. I help to formulate all of these products and more…

Be well,

Erik
=========================================
View attachment 31445

 

[Smoke]

I was intrigued by humic acid and bought some...initially a solution from a local hydroponic store then powder since it is much cheaper.

The powder form is TeraVita SP-90 (no affiliation just what I ended up buying) from Amazon. SP-90 is supposedly 90% humic and is 100% water soluble.

It did not come with instruction for application rate so I "winged" it. Another B-nut member and I have been conversing via PM since we are both lost LOL....sharing what we gathered from the posts and from the vendor but it was insufficient.

I decided to contact the manufacturer and I am sharing the response below...in case anyone decides to go through the same route I/we did.

Good luck and I hope this helps someone.

P.S. I took a snap shot of the "Influence" product he referred to and it does look promising.

Please proceed with caution and as Smoke alluded to...too much humic can & will kill plants!!! Better thread on the side of caution.

=========================================
Dario,

We typically leave email responses up to the re-sellers of our products, unless we sell direct to the end users, whereby we would then fully service the account as would be expected.

So, I’ll try to make this easy and brief…

Humates are VERY complex substances, and the rates of usage vary widely for differing crops & conditions, so labels are intentionally vague and are geared “toward the middle”; otherwise, we’d have to offer a book with every package, if our desire is to be truly accurate…

The best way to use SP-90, to avoid any over-application potential, would be to add 1/8th to 1/4 teaspoon of SP-90 to a gallon of water, and use this mixture to water the plants as you normally would do.

Anything beyond this recommendation would require our conversing over the phone to elicit bonsai-specific details that would help achieve a more dialed-in recommendation.

One last thing: someday down the road, you may think about trying our Influence product (see label attached); something tells me this product could work very well for bonsai growers.

P.S. I help to formulate all of these products and more…

Be well,

Erik
=========================================
View attachment 31445

I believe by PM I recommended 1 teaspoon per gallon. I think I was in the ballpark pretty well as they are probably erring on the side of less . That would be prudent. 1/4 teaspoon would be good.

Thanks.

 

[Poink88]

I believe by PM I recommended 1 teaspoon per gallon. I think I was in the ballpark pretty well as they are probably erring on the side of less . That would be prudent. 1/4 teaspoon would be good.

Thanks.

You are actually much closer if you factor that this is 90%. 1 tsp/gal could be right on for your concentration actually.

Thanks!

 

[lordy]

So I guess I'm the other one sending PMs about this, and I have very different info from Erik. This has me quite confused about what to do. Here is what Erik told me:

SP-90 does mean 90% humic content.

Approximately, 12 dry ounces of SP-90, in 1 gallon of water, should yield a 5% concentrate.

Would recommend water close to 110 degrees F to do your mixing; also recommend to sift powder into the very warm water “very slowly” while simultaneously stirring.

Best Regards,

Erik

Now I'm no scientist, but I seriously doubt that a teaspoon is 12 oz. So what do you believe? 12 oz or 1/4 tsp? Inquiring minds want to know. And with what Smoke says about avoiding anything too strong, I may just put this stuff on my vegetable garden and lawn.

 

[Smoke]

After the first year of experimenting with this stuff I moved away from using with humic acid as a stand alone and moved towards finding a balanced fertilizer with the humic acid in low concentrations in it already. That way I was killing two birds with one stone. I urge people to find fertlizer with it in it!

For me the gro power products worked extremly well for me, whether using the bagged granules or the tabs. Either way they both do a wonderful job.


I should also let people know, especially those that always poo poo ideas when something seems like snake oil.

No one ever said that using humic acid would make your bonsai super over night. This is a program that used religiously over the years, will improve the way your soil works with fertlizer as well as the plant performing better from the fertlizer. The main thing I get from this regimen is:
1. very little leaf burn in maples
2. fast growth and shoot development (more buds)
3. faster trunk growth in a pot
4. better response in spring to leaf out
5. better disease resistance
This is something noticed after a few years, and in handleing plants for thirty years I knew when there was a difference.

 

[Poink88]

So I guess I'm the other one sending PMs about this, and I have very different info from Erik. This has me quite confused about what to do. Here is what Erik told me:

SP-90 does mean 90% humic content.

Approximately, 12 dry ounces of SP-90, in 1 gallon of water, should yield a 5% concentrate.

Would recommend water close to 110 degrees F to do your mixing; also recommend to sift powder into the very warm water “very slowly” while simultaneously stirring.

Best Regards,

Erik

Now I'm no scientist, but I seriously doubt that a teaspoon is 12 oz. So what do you believe? 12 oz or 1/4 tsp? Inquiring minds want to know. And with what Smoke says about avoiding anything too strong, I may just put this stuff on my vegetable garden and lawn.

I'd go with 1/8 or 1/4 tsp per gallon. From all that I've read it is better to be under than over. It is also consistent with Smokes findings.

 

[lordy]

I'd go with 1/8 or 1/4 tsp per gallon. From all that I've read it is better to be under than over. It is also consistent with Smokes findings.

Agreed. Just disappointed in the manufacturer and the seller BOTH not knowing squat about how to use what they sell.
I will go with the SmokeMan who has practical experience. With any luck, I may see a positive difference at the end of the summer. I also hope that my tomatoes taste better and produce a better bounty! Thanks guys. Sorry this turned into a science project.

 

[lordy]

You know what? This is foolish. For the time, effort, and money we put into these trees, guessing about the strength of this stuff, that has the potential to either make them better OR turn them into kindling, is idiotic.
Is there anyone out there with a chemistry background who can say with any surety how to mix 90% humic acid powder with water to arrive at 5% strength? We've been told by the manufacturer to mix 1/4 teaspoon per gallon, and to mix 12 dry oz. per gallon of water. I agree 12 oz seems way too much to make 5%, although I dont know why, but 1/4 teaspoon actually seems a bit weak to me. Should the humic acid powder be measured by weight? Or perhaps by volume? Too many holes in this for me. Someone hopefully is able to "sift" this all out for us.

 

[Beng]

More then 5% won't hurt your plants, but a lot more might. Dr. Earth Life contains 11% in it. I ordered the gro power tabs this year and will use them in addition to a mild organic slow release. Will save me from constantly mixing liquid fertilizers every week.

I had them send a small portion of my tabs in their flowering formula to try it out. It contains 7% humic acid 3-12-12. So I think if you were a hair over on your measurement you'd be OK if they are able to put 7% in safely. Manufacturers generally err on the side of caution.

12-8-8 Gro-Power Tabs
12 Month Release
20.00% Humus
4.00% Humic Acids
Micronutrients

3-12-12 Gro-Power Flower'n'Bloom
2-4 Month Release
35.00% Humus
7.00% Humic Acids
Micronutrients

5-5-5 Dr. Earth Life
Derived from Fish bone meal, fish meal, alfalfa meal, feather meal, potassium sulphate, bat guano, kelp meal, soft rock phosphate, cottonseed meal, seaweed extract.
11% Humic Acids from Leonardite
7 Pro Biotics
Ecto and Endo Mycorrhizae.

 

[Poink88]

BEWARE...4% in tabs form (12 month release) is a lot less than 4% in a solution!!!

We are talking about a solution that is supposed to be safe to use in every watering (or weekly). That is why it need to be diluted.

 

[coh]

You know what? This is foolish. For the time, effort, and money we put into these trees, guessing about the strength of this stuff, that has the potential to either make them better OR turn them into kindling, is idiotic.
Is there anyone out there with a chemistry background who can say with any surety how to mix 90% humic acid powder with water to arrive at 5% strength? We've been told by the manufacturer to mix 1/4 teaspoon per gallon, and to mix 12 dry oz. per gallon of water. I agree 12 oz seems way too much to make 5%, although I dont know why, but 1/4 teaspoon actually seems a bit weak to me. Should the humic acid powder be measured by weight? Or perhaps by volume? Too many holes in this for me. Someone hopefully is able to "sift" this all out for us.

Agree 100%. If I were considering using this stuff, I'd contact the manufacturer again for clarification. 12 dry ounces is 3/4 of a pound, that seems like a heck of a lot of stuff to add to a gallon of water to get a 5% solution. I'm going to try one of the humic acid containing fertilizers this season, probably Dr. Earth, which claim between 5-11% humic acid depending on the formulation, or gro-power. That seems like a safer bet to me.

Chris

 

[Oliver Muscio]

Agree 100%. If I were considering using this stuff, I'd contact the manufacturer again for clarification. 12 dry ounces is 3/4 of a pound, that seems like a heck of a lot of stuff to add to a gallon of water to get a 5% solution. I'm going to try one of the humic acid containing fertilizers this season, probably Dr. Earth, which claim between 5-11% humic acid depending on the formulation, or gro-power. That seems like a safer bet to me.

Chris

A gallon of water weighs 128 ounces (8 pounds) so 12 ounces dry powder dissolved in that would give close to a 10% solution.

Oliver

 

[Smoke]

A gallon of water weighs 128 ounces (8 pounds) so 12 ounces dry powder dissolved in that would give close to a 10% solution.

Oliver

10% by volume, but not by strength.

A teaspoon is 90% strength and 5
pounds is 90% strength

A teaspoon in a gallon is a much "smaller" dilution then using a straight volume measurement.

 

[davetree]

How much more expensive can the liquid stuff be ? I bought a 48 oz. bottle for under $20. No mixing or guessing. It should take you a while to use that much.

 

[Vance Wood]

I too am confused about this issue. I have some that gets added to my liquid fert every once in a while but I am not certain it does anything good, bad, or nothing at all.

Over the years I have begun to understand that much in the way of horticultural science is still stumbling in the dark. Measuring the results of some product can be influenced by more than the product itself so it's difficult to determine why something happened. Outside of gasoline and a match, it is in my opinion difficult to determine which thing is doing what and why.

 

[Poink88]

How much more expensive can the liquid stuff be ? I bought a 48 oz. bottle for under $20. No mixing or guessing. It should take you a while to use that much.

I am not sure about the density of the powder but assuming it is same as water...5 lbs of humic acid (about $20.00 worth) at the recommended 1/8 tsp per gallon will make 3,840 gallons.

How many gallons will your 48 oz concentrate make?

That will help determine how much more expensive it is.

 

[Poink88]

I too am confused about this issue. I have some that gets added to my liquid fert every once in a while but I am not certain it does anything good, bad, or nothing at all.

Over the years I have begun to understand that much in the way of horticultural science is still stumbling in the dark. Measuring the results of some product can be influenced by more than the product itself so it's difficult to determine why something happened. Outside of gasoline and a match, it is in my opinion difficult to determine which thing is doing what and why.

What?!?! Are you saying the person (fellow forum member) who believes in science and believes he knows everything about plants is wrong???

(just ribbing someone...sorry can't pass this up. LOL)

 

[Vance Wood]

What?!?! Are you saying the person (fellow forum member) who believes in science and believes he knows everything about plants is wrong???

(just ribbing someone...sorry can't pass this up. LOL)

Good grief don't drag me down that road. I think I am going to start to use the Sgt. Schultz gambit; I know nothing, I know nothing---------( remember Hogan's Heroes?)

 

[davetree]

I am sure the powder is cheaper. But it's $20, jeez you'd think that you are breaking your bank. I can make about 1000 gallons at your rate of usage. That should get me through a season. My point is that u are going to a lot of work and uncertainty to save $10.

 

[Poink88]

Some have more time than money. Others just want to explore and it is not all about the money. There are those who enjoy doing this sort of thing too.

What ever motivates each of us.