Any possibility BN will ever show user-data to let others know someone's # of trees, or # of years in the hobby? #Likes is a poor metric IMO..

Adair M

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I think the basic idea here is to get several opinions and distill what you ultimately like/want/need/whatever. There's always more than one way to skin a cat, and I think most people want to know what the options are, especially as opposed to being told what to do. This is a whole lot more art-leaning than horticultural-leaning. We have artists that want hort advice and hort's that want art advice, and everything in-between. All should be taken with a generous sprinkling of salt...

If someone needs a stated pedigree to add gravitas to their words, then maybe the time spent "earning" that pedigree was wasted?
Maybe.

Of course, it doesn’t matter how good your “art” is if you kill all your trees. Likewise, your trees may be as healthy as can be, but if they all look like a piece of landscape hedging, that’s no good either.

As for being “told what to do”... individualism is an American characteristic. The Japanese are more conformists. I’m speaking in broad generalities, of course. It’s a cultural thing. Japan is a small country, they’ve been crowded together for a long time. They’ve found that conformity is beneficial to their society. America is a much larger place. More space. We all have more space, thus more freedom to “do our own thing” without infringing upon others.

So, here we have Bonsai, a Japanese art form. We Americans, individuals all, trying to perform a conformist art. Some try to understand the Japanese cultural influence of the art, others try to rebel against it.

About learning techniques: the Japanese have learned the horticulture and training techniques over decades and centuries of continued trial and error. These best practices are passed from generation to generation of bonsai artists. They kept all that knowledge to themselves in the past. Now, however, they are accepting students (apprentices) from all over the world. It’s foolish not to take advantage of the knowledge the young apprentices are bringing back home after their years of study in Japan.

Now, I’m not going to say that bonsai can’t be done better than it is in Japan. I don’t know, maybe someone can exceed the Japanese? Using entirely different techniques? I haven’t seen it done yet. Until I have, I will continue to try to emulate the Japanese.
 

Starfox

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A lot of the data is probably contained on site in threads. I'm thinking research, excel doc. and site resources.
 

Tieball

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I prefer privacy. I have no idea who the thousands of people that eyeball this site are. I don’t really need to broadcast my collection or work. I periodically contact someone specific about a question I may have after reading posts from them and experience I read in those posts. But the conversation is just between the two of us. The posts tell me a lot. I think listing to much information is a bit dangerous.
 

Genlisae

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I am an actual newbie. I have lurked here for about 3 weeks reading and learning and watching before I joined about a week ago. I do not have a bonsai. I have three trees I am considering turning into bonsai. I think I fit the definition of "new" being discussed in this thread, in fact, this is my very first post (Hello!).

To me, the metrics on the side mean exactly diddly squat. For example, there is a well known member here, many posts, many likes, lots of trees, decades in the hobby, enters shows, posts pictures, etc., etc. I would take everything this person says with, not a grain, but an entire spoon of salt. My reasons are thus: 1) My climate is not this persons climate. 2) My goals are not this persons goals. 3) My views for what I would want my trees to become do not even remotely match with this persons views of what they want for their trees. 4) I find this person condesending and abrasive. While their techniques and practises may be fine and the standard the way of doing things, the way this person presents said techniques and explains their methods negate everything they are saying, especially when someone else can (and usually does) explain the same thing without coming across as toxic.

Your milage may vary of course and others who as new as I am may find the statistics helpful. I do not.
 

vedecx

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I prefer privacy. I have no idea who the thousands of people that eyeball this site are. I don’t really need to broadcast my collection or work. I periodically contact someone specific about a question I may have after reading posts from them and experience I read in those posts. But the conversation is just between the two of us. The posts tell me a lot. I think listing to much information is a bit dangerous.
I feel this is an important point. There have been several threads discussing theft on the form that pop up periodically. The discussions ranged from sharing info about actual thefts to preventative measures. One of the preventative measures was not showing off one's trees to any and everyone. Having a measure of the number of trees one owns openly displayed on the form for anyone to find might encourage unsavory visits. Find someone with lots of trees (quality issues aside on this thought experiment) might encourage someone to trace your IP address and find your real world address. Then make a stop and clear house. If they are willing to hit large well known bonsai nurseries, why not hit a less secure backyard? Finding someone with lots of trees increases your odds of finding valuable trees and make the trip worthwhile.

To sum up, why would people go through all the trouble to not draw attention their collection in person, only to give it all up to strangers on the internet. Then again there is Facebook, so what do I know?
 

Adair M

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I am an actual newbie. I have lurked here for about 3 weeks reading and learning and watching before I joined about a week ago. I do not have a bonsai. I have three trees I am considering turning into bonsai. I think I fit the definition of "new" being discussed in this thread, in fact, this is my very first post (Hello!).

To me, the metrics on the side mean exactly diddly squat. For example, there is a well known member here, many posts, many likes, lots of trees, decades in the hobby, enters shows, posts pictures, etc., etc. I would take everything this person says with, not a grain, but an entire spoon of salt. My reasons are thus: 1) My climate is not this persons climate. 2) My goals are not this persons goals. 3) My views for what I would want my trees to become do not even remotely match with this persons views of what they want for their trees. 4) I find this person condesending and abrasive. While their techniques and practises may be fine and the standard the way of doing things, the way this person presents said techniques and explains their methods negate everything they are saying, especially when someone else can (and usually does) explain the same thing without coming across as toxic.

Your milage may vary of course and others who as new as I am may find the statistics helpful. I do not.
Lol!!! You’re probably talking about me! And if you’re not, I still fit all those undesirable characteristics. I have no idea what your climate is, can’t do anything about that anyway.

As for my advice... I don’t blow bullshit. I give straight honest advice based upon my personal knowledge of what works and what doesn’t. I make the assumption that people post here to learn bonsai, and the knowledgeable people post here to help others become better.

If you want to see crap bonsai posted, and see lots of posts of people oohing and ahhing over crap bonsai, I suggest you go to Facebook, and look at the “Bonsai Trees” group.

You want to learn how to really do bonsai, put on your big boy pants and pay attention.
 

Johnathan

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As for my advice... I don’t blow bullshit. I give straight honest advice based upon my personal knowledge of what works and what doesn’t. I make the assumption that people post here to learn bonsai, and the knowledgeable people post here to help others become better.

You want to learn how to really do bonsai, put on your big boy pants and pay attention.
I think the forum members here do a FANTASTIC job of calling out BS with each other. I even enjoy some of the "conversations" lol more importantly, I appreciate the honest truth, no matter how much its not what I want to hear.

I say good ole’ reading and seeing the results people post and research on peoples work you admire
Agreed, anyone coming here for advice can probably find multiple threads on anything they can think of. I remember a few years ago when I first joined and was researching everything I'd find myself on a thread from 10 years ago when @Smoke was still giving out nice pleasant responses lol Even now I still find myself back on threads from years ago.

There was a time when people were asking for a "dislike" button... or a "you don't know what you're talking about" button. I very specifically avoided anything that would create a negative feedback loop to the site. We had enough people arguing... the last thing I wanted to do was add another layer to it. I could imagine people creating numerous accounts just so they could spam each other with "dislike" votes. Sounds childish - but it would happen.
Exactly. Power of Positivity!
 

Doug J

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Who validates this "info"?
Frankly, if you are unable to separate truth from fiction, here, I think you are likely unable to do it anywhere.
Totally agree. I don't see that further stats to contribute to a "resume" would be the least bit helpful. It would only serve as an ego builder to the person posting said stats.
People know who the alphas are here.
 

Cadillactaste

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Goodness...get rid of the likes. I don't even pay attention to one's like count. I value their knowledge by reading their posts...you learn real fast who understands say a particular species...by viewing their work and skills. As one soaking up the information on the forum it's the one trying to gain information to grasp the one sharing the info...knows this knowledge for their climate, not yours possibly. It's why location is important to put in your profile.

This forum has been around a good long time helping others. Without all that...additional information. One seeking out advice needs to do their own homework per say. It's in the archives.

I've been in the hobby 6 years almost ...20 trees. among them a few projects going on . I've taken rough stock and developed it...and purchased trees further along. I tried to be selective in finding trees that appealed to me. This forum has helped me for, I live very rural...my nearest club when I joined...2 1/2 hours from me. I have taken advantage of Colin Lewis's wiring tutorial...and learned who knew what species and a mentor familiar with a similar climate. Without all this talk of needing a pedigree for identification. I have gotten along just fine.

Pyracantha...which has its own thread here one's could easily find if they looked me up. But, maybe since I am rural...somewhat self taught...by the direction of others here. My words aren't as sound. My pedigree tarnished...lol but even with a tarnished pedigree so to speak...I am chugging along enjoying this mutual hobby.
FB_IMG_1552998556852.jpgFB_IMG_1552998578114.jpg
Looking forward to potting up this ginkgo into its new shoes once it's buds start to move. (Virtual of new pot in the photo) So...do I need to worry if my time offering direction is waisted because well...I may be chopped liver!?! Never thought of that before. I share when I have time..because...I am where I am now, because of others who did the same for me.
20190315_102252.jpg
 

0soyoung

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Looking forward to potting up this ginkgo into its new shoes once it's buds start to move. (Virtual of new pot in the photo) So...do I need to worry if my time offering direction is waisted because well...I may be chopped liver!?! Never thought of that before. I share when I have time..because...I am where I am now, because of others who did the same for me.
?❤
 

Cable

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W/ Bnut, I tend to pay attention to the "messages" to "likes" ratio.

For example, 1k messages to 250 likes vs. 250 messages and 1k likes. Almost all the valuable posters here have at least a 2:1 ratio of likes over messages.
Checks to see if I'm valuable....

Edit: nope
 

Cadillactaste

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Checks to see if I'm valuable....

Edit: nope
I laughed at the rationality of how ones worth is determined. A lot of those likes were from p*ssing matches for many. ? some for valuable guiadance. You're welcome in my chopped liver group.

An alternative...would be one to pay for the knowledge they are after. One who apprenticed in say Japan. May meet the credentials...of a worthy teacher.
 
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I own a forest. Does that put me in the top 20? Because that's like a 1000 trees. And I have some 40 more in the back yard.
Honestly, I come here to share experiences and learn. If some noob has the information I am looking for, then that noob is my guide for the day. If I disagree with someone I consider masterfully skilled, it doesn't change the fact that we disagree. I like all of you guys and your input, no matter what stage you're in. Alright, to be honest I do have a preference towards people that like the same stuff as I do, and the people that dislike taxus like I do.
But that doesn't make them good artists or subject experts. I see this forum for what it is: a bunch of people on the internet sharing the things they do in their back yard. Crowning them kings or putting them on a pedestal would in my honest opinion break the 'everyone on the internet is created equal' idea. I'm very happy that just one or two of the bonsai folks around here have that "Do you know who I am?!" kind of attitude.

If you want to dive into statistics, you might want to just set up a survey or something. Anyone willing to participate could fill in their user name and answer whatever you'll be asking. You can get your numbers game on, people not willing will keep their privacy, BNut doesn't have to crawl the forum for data, and we'll all be on the same level afterwards. There are some pretty neat tools out there when it comes to surveys.
 

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