Shogun610
Masterpiece
Wow look at that, did you fertilize at all or were they completely left alone and only watered. That’s sick , phew. You learned something and still didn’t have to use them as kindling lol.
Anyone With Birds Nest Spruce?
- Thread starter Tidal Bonsai
- Start date
Tidal Bonsai
Omono
I didn’t fertilize them at all when I saw the dieback and lack of growth. Once I saw positive signs of growth, I started fertilizing them like all of my other conifers. Heavy doses of cottonseed meal once a month, and full strength liquid fish once a week. The one on the right is a bush!
I got lucky for sure! I don’t know about everyone else, but these trees definitely have a mounding growth pattern from their bowl growth habit. The lower branches are definitely pushing harder than the apex.
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Sputnik 184
Mame
Really useful info. What substrate are yours in?
Flowerhouse
Chumono
Following this thread because I have oh-so-many spruces and I love them all. I have only one wee birdsnest, haven't touched it yet. So far it has survived one long cold winter, the first test.
Tidal Bonsai
Omono
Let me clarify my above statement, I meant to say was “Once I saw positive signs of growth, I started fertilizing them like all of my other conifers in DEVELOPMENT.” Refined trees are treated totally differently.
The one on the left is in pure pumice because I did a big repot on it to improve aeration. The one on the right is pure lava because the root ball was pretty good when I got it. They both have a top dressing of shredded sphagnum.
Not entirely sure if the difference in growth was from the different substrates, or from the different way they were handled.
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Yeah when I asked fertilization I was referring to when they started showing buds coming back.
Sputnik 184
Mame
I hedged my bets and went for an akadama/pumice/lava combination with some shredded sphagnum in the mix
Eckhoffw
Masterpiece
I’ve been killing spruces for a couple of years now as well. 
I have a few birds nest spruces that I have been trying to build strength in - regain some foliage mass.
I repotted them in a mostly sphagnum moss blend. Some pumice and
calcined clay in there as a top dressing.
It seems to be helping.
I have a few birds nest spruces that I have been trying to build strength in - regain some foliage mass.
I repotted them in a mostly sphagnum moss blend. Some pumice and
calcined clay in there as a top dressing.It seems to be helping.
hinmo24t
Masterpiece
Shot of mine today
Sputnik 184
Mame
What is your plan of work for the tree this year. Still trying to get an idea of what I should be doing and when.
hinmo24t
Masterpiece
i did its first rootwork repot and minor pruning recently. plan to grow it for 3 years and prune it back to low broom
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
That's kinda long for something with such dense growth.
I let them (spruce) grow in spring. Cut off a large offending branch or 2 in summer/fall, and reduce any keeper tips to 2 buds in winter.
Though I haven't had many "keeper tips", since in a compacting stage, "proper nexts" (a good fork) is identified further in and pruned back to without much worry at any time it feels ready.
Post solstice full moon Repot.
Sorce
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I didn't fertilize at all last year, Plant-toned it a few weeks ago.
When Ryan Neil talks about letting things grow to get backbuds, I think these are the best example.
See how the health of the tip buds are "towing" the ones further in along?
I feel like most folks are.... basically losing years by trimming for backbuds, cutting the tow rope if you will. Which leaves your "load" never gaining the vigor it needs. Well, NEXT year the interior buds would be strong enough to cut back to, that is the lost year, but it compounds year after year, and no one ever learns how to..."back the trailer in".
I'll be able to cut back to these interior buds this fall, with no loss. And the added bonus of twice as much material removed from the outside which should result in even better interior budding, to repeat the process next year.
Sorce
When Ryan Neil talks about letting things grow to get backbuds, I think these are the best example.
See how the health of the tip buds are "towing" the ones further in along?
I feel like most folks are.... basically losing years by trimming for backbuds, cutting the tow rope if you will. Which leaves your "load" never gaining the vigor it needs. Well, NEXT year the interior buds would be strong enough to cut back to, that is the lost year, but it compounds year after year, and no one ever learns how to..."back the trailer in".
I'll be able to cut back to these interior buds this fall, with no loss. And the added bonus of twice as much material removed from the outside which should result in even better interior budding, to repeat the process next year.
Sorce
Eckhoffw
Masterpiece
This is my scenario completely. Was cutting back to buds. They just keep on trying to get some solar panels rocking, and I kept on trimming back for tighter branching.
Now, just letting them run for awhile, then trim once they’re established.
Kingpoutine
Sapling
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
The Spruce for Real thread is going to happen, these will be pieces.
I noticed new buds on new growth today, I was busy the last 2 days so it's possible they have been visible for a couple days.
I believe there is a direct correlation between the time these buds are visible, and the Actual health and capabilities of a tree.
I believe the earlier these buds are present, the more "sitting correctly timed in the cycle", the tree has become. It already knows the health it will have, so it already preps for the continuation. This is what allows us to know what will happen when we do something. No wishing, Knowing.
I think it's also important to note that this is "abundance". Abundance is what we need to remove to keep the tree at its best. Not regular growth.
I hate to pull apart B4me again, because I love Harry and his excellent information. It is because I ingested it so deeply that it is what I dissect.
I fear the teaching of counting tip buds to gauge health is incomplete.
I believe it is actually opposite of our goals.
I believe it is telling us, well, exactly what it is telling us...that the TIP of that branch wants health, because the interior is less capable of growth.
So we end up actually cutting branches that Aren't prepared to grow further in. Granted, that strength removed from the tips will cause shoots to pop further in. But these are then desperation shoots, not the "regular growth", that just grows "without skipping a beat".
We should be paying attention to "towing along" that good interior growth. Just begining the cycle with one more year.
It is with this regular growth that we can build good branching, to any size, taper, and ramification requirements. We are then in control of how long it takes, and can choose to build slow, or fast.
See....it is not that all these things we've been taught aren't true cause and effects, it's just trying to be one year ahead, makes every year just half as good as it could be.
There is no way to quantify this, but how can the result not be trees that are only half as good?
Half as good trees isn't really the issue though, it's subjective.
What isn't subjective is our health and what we gain in the persuit.
Fuck Backbuds, backbudding....
We've become so obsessed with it, that we can't see we are working directly against actually getting them.
Sorce
I noticed new buds on new growth today, I was busy the last 2 days so it's possible they have been visible for a couple days.
I believe there is a direct correlation between the time these buds are visible, and the Actual health and capabilities of a tree.
I believe the earlier these buds are present, the more "sitting correctly timed in the cycle", the tree has become. It already knows the health it will have, so it already preps for the continuation. This is what allows us to know what will happen when we do something. No wishing, Knowing.
I think it's also important to note that this is "abundance". Abundance is what we need to remove to keep the tree at its best. Not regular growth.
I hate to pull apart B4me again, because I love Harry and his excellent information. It is because I ingested it so deeply that it is what I dissect.
I fear the teaching of counting tip buds to gauge health is incomplete.
I believe it is actually opposite of our goals.
I believe it is telling us, well, exactly what it is telling us...that the TIP of that branch wants health, because the interior is less capable of growth.
So we end up actually cutting branches that Aren't prepared to grow further in. Granted, that strength removed from the tips will cause shoots to pop further in. But these are then desperation shoots, not the "regular growth", that just grows "without skipping a beat".
We should be paying attention to "towing along" that good interior growth. Just begining the cycle with one more year.
It is with this regular growth that we can build good branching, to any size, taper, and ramification requirements. We are then in control of how long it takes, and can choose to build slow, or fast.
See....it is not that all these things we've been taught aren't true cause and effects, it's just trying to be one year ahead, makes every year just half as good as it could be.
There is no way to quantify this, but how can the result not be trees that are only half as good?
Half as good trees isn't really the issue though, it's subjective.
What isn't subjective is our health and what we gain in the persuit.
Fuck Backbuds, backbudding....
We've become so obsessed with it, that we can't see we are working directly against actually getting them.
Sorce
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Sputnik 184
Mame
Keen to tow along inner growth but slightly worried it won’t survive on my two unpruned trees as it’s so buried. You can see the buds when you pull back the outer foliage but I can’t imagine much light is reaching it.
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RKatzin
Omono
Thank you Sorceman!
This is my Bird's nest Spruce. For scale reference that pot is19"x14"x5", the base of the trunk is 5"and she's 30" tall from the soil. Originally a Forestfarm tree, I've had it for several years now.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
IMO...this is one of the only times wire should be applied to an entire branch, but not for the usual time and material wasting it's usually used for, but to get that s the hell out the way!
When you can't leave it on or fake it off....
Move it the hell out the way!
We talk about trees looking "ugly" for the sake of design, only ever in regards to letting deciduous trees grow untidy.
With conifers, untidy must be thought of as ok too. But we have to take additional steps (wire out the way) to ensure safe and appropriate early
development.
Sorce
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