Beginner question on cakes versus liquid fertilizer.

[remist17]

I have read numerous posts regarding fertilizer. I see some people say whatever fertilizer is on sale is what they use. I see other posts that swear by the cake method while others use organic liquid fertilizer. I have some questions on these methods that I am hoping someone can advise me on.
1-Cake fertilizer. This breaks down and the material goes into the soil. Would this not start to clog the soil? I was told that the soil needs to be open and I see the fertilizer matter over time 6 to 12 month period clogging up the soil. Is this true? This would then lead me to ask if I am not to repot a tree for 2 years then 24months of clogging would take place. What is done to prevent this from happening.
2-Liquid cheap fertilizer that is on sale. I read that these type like miracle grow contain salts that could harm the tree. Again this leads me to think every 2 weeks fertilizer is applied. During this time period the pot is watered, wouldn’t this wash out the salts assuming a free flowing soil?
3-Organic Liquid fertilizer. Can this also contain salts? How do you tell if salts or harmful products are in the solution?

My next set of questions are regarding the dry fertilizer. I picked up some plant tone the other day. I put a tablespoon loose on my tree. It rained on it and then the plant tone stared to grow some impressive mold and form a hard patty on the top of the soil.
1-Will the mold hurt my maple?
2-Do you leave the clump or continue to break it up?

 

[yenling83]

Yes, Fertilizer is a subject that you will hear 50 differnt things from 50 differnt people on.

Here's my opinion which others may not agree with:
1.Yes organics will clog the soil. There are a few tricks to helping this. First you should clean the and replace the top 1/2 inch or so of the top soil once a year, usually in fall or winter. Completely replace this as it will get hard and prevent the water from reaching the root ball. The other is that you should put chopped new zealand spagnum moss on on the top of the soil before you place your cakes. Also replace your cakes every two months with a fresh one. It's easier to do if the moss is there, remove all the small broken off fert. Replace the moss and the cake.

2. I should not comment because I don't have the best experience with liquid chemicals

3. I'd reccommend liquid fish emulsion. It's not super strong compared with chemicals, it's organic and it's not harmful. Depending on the soil mix you use, you can likely use alot more than is recommended.

1. Nope, the mold is probably good for your maple

2. leave the clump, you should have several clumps on the soil. Replace these with a fresh cake about every two months.


IMO, organic is the best way to go because your conifers will be more flexible. If you grow black pine, it's alot easier to adjust the level of food your trees gets with cakes, which is a key to good de candling. While I can't prove it, I think organic is better for really long term health of your tree-like 100 years.

 

[dick benbow]

I really don't think a tree can distinquish rather a fertilizer is organic or not. or do i think it cares.

To me the secret is to have what the tree needs there when it needs it. If your soil is well draining then your every two weeks use of fish would make a graph look like mountains and valleys. Oranics that would pretty much graph as a straight line is consistently there every day in small amounts and available as needed.

I prefer to use both. i replace my organics which i place in tea bags every three months, and suppliment with fish every two weeks according to what I'm seeing with the response of the tree.

like so many things in life, one shoe size does not fit all, nor does our locale, soil, weather.

there's a reason apprentices in japan must first learn to water properly because it teaches you on a daily basis to be targeted into each tree as an individual. this ability abodes well in all the needs of the tree from repotting to wire removal. More important then we give it credit.

Tho it sounds simplistic, finding someone sucessful in your locale and emulating them can get you started down the right direction.

 

[remist17]

Great thank you all. I am starting to put the pieces together.

Is there an specific place I can buy tea bags or can I use my wifes old pantihoes? Or maybe coffee filters?

 

[Poink88]

Is there an specific place I can buy tea bags or can I use my wifes old pantihoes? Or maybe coffee filters?

I love that idea!!!

There are empty tea bags at Amazon or eBay but I don't like them since they use filter papers. Not porous enough IMHO to get enough water in there and seep back out to the soil. Old panty hose should work much better and I am stealing the idea (I hope you don't mind) LOL

 

[remist17]

Im glad I can finally contribute !!!

I went and bought 100 tea bags on amazon. I am going to try these. Wife was not to happy with me swiping the hoes.

 

[jk_lewis]

ALL you need to know about fertilization:

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/fertiliz.htm

and

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/overfert.htm

 

[Vance Wood]

I have read numerous posts regarding fertilizer. I see some people say whatever fertilizer is on sale is what they use. I see other posts that swear by the cake method while others use organic liquid fertilizer. I have some questions on these methods that I am hoping someone can advise me on.
1-Cake fertilizer. This breaks down and the material goes into the soil. Would this not start to clog the soil? I was told that the soil needs to be open and I see the fertilizer matter over time 6 to 12 month period clogging up the soil. Is this true? This would then lead me to ask if I am not to repot a tree for 2 years then 24months of clogging would take place. What is done to prevent this from happening.
2-Liquid cheap fertilizer that is on sale. I read that these type like miracle grow contain salts that could harm the tree. Again this leads me to think every 2 weeks fertilizer is applied. During this time period the pot is watered, wouldn’t this wash out the salts assuming a free flowing soil?
3-Organic Liquid fertilizer. Can this also contain salts? How do you tell if salts or harmful products are in the solution?

My next set of questions are regarding the dry fertilizer. I picked up some plant tone the other day. I put a tablespoon loose on my tree. It rained on it and then the plant tone stared to grow some impressive mold and form a hard patty on the top of the soil.
1-Will the mold hurt my maple?
2-Do you leave the clump or continue to break it up?

Here is what can be guaranteed to work and be absolutely the best stuff you can use.

The most expensive product you can find imported from the most remote location on the planet made from a secret formula used by Buddhist monks to grow ritual Hashish that will raise the dead.

 

[KennedyMarx]

Technically all fertilizers are chemical.

In addition to Brent's articles you should read the one Walter Pall wrote:

http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/2010/06/feeding-substrate-and-watering-english.html

With organic cakes you have to worry about animals being attracted to the smell and digging up your trees. You also don't have control over how much fertilizer the trees get, at least not like using water diluted fertilizers. Plus they tend to clog the soil up after a while. If someone wants to deal with that stuff I won't look down at them, but I would rather just use "chemical" fertilizers and get the same results as the shit cakes.

 

[MidMichBonsai]

I love me some Green Dream Organic Fertilizer. You can get it from Stone Lantern or various other sources.

That being said, when I bring my tropicals in for the winter, I use a liquid chemical fertilizer because the wife doesn't like the smell of the organic stuff in the house and when it comes to your spouse and bonsai...pick your battles.

Yes, I fertilize indoors because in Michigan the summer is like 4 months long so often my trees are indoors during March and April!

 

[Smoke]

.......wifes old pantihoes? ?

What are those? Is this a new term from the Hood?

 

[remist17]

Smoke Never said I was a good speller......

To help you out......
pantyhose.

Hope that makes it better.

 

[Vance Wood]

Smoke Never said I was a good speller......

To help you out......
pantyhose.

Hope that makes it better.

No?------pantyhoes may very well be correct, depending on whether we are using tongue in cheek---- or somewhere else-----sorry couldn't resist. That was just too much dead meat sitting along the side of the road for this old buzzard to ignore and play nice.