Bonsai newbie with 3 trees!

[MGW]

Hi everyone,

So, I do not have a green thumb and have always hated gardening and been totally uninterested in trees, nature or anything to do with the outdoors really!

Why am I here?! I suffered some mental health problems in recent years and was actively searching for non destructive outlets for my perfectionism - and Bonsai is it! I LOVE IT! Or at least, I love the idea of it. Fragrances and perfumes has been one outlet, collecting rare antique teddy bears another (!), coffee beans and of course - Bonsai.

So, I'm here to learn, to enjoy and to have that positive outlet for perfectionism - which I suspect a lot of people involved with Bonsai can relate to on some level?

I have 3 trees at present.

INDOOR CHINESE ELM:
My first tree (I prefer indoor trees because I see them more than the outdoor!) which I have had for approx 6 months. I've watered it, tried to keep it to a shape that I like, but done very little else with it up to now.



CHINESE JUNIPER:
This tree scares me to death! I went on a course at Herons Bonasi which is a nursery in Surrey, UK run by a famous award winning Bonsai artist. I didn't learn very much unfortunately as it turned out to be "doing as you are told" rather than understanding why, but I did all of the work on this tree from picking it from his wild nursery to wiring it, stripping the bark and potting it. Obviously - he told me what to do with it and I've had it sat in the garden for about 2 weeks. I haven't got a clue what to do with this tree, it was quite expensive and I don't want it to die!!

Before:


After:


SWEET PLUM:
This arrived today! has been unboxed and photographed for this post, This will also live indoors next to the Chinese Elm.



I have no idea where to go from here. I have no basic knowledge of gardening or anything, I'm just an obsessive perfectionist looking to make perfect trees from scratch with no prior knowledge of anything related to any of it! My aspiration is to have a small nursery in my own garden (which is very large) with beautiful displays and stands and to learn to become good in the garden also. I am excited! Here we go!

 

[sorce]

non destructive outlets for my perfectionism -

My personal definition of Crazy.

Welcome to It!

Though....
You will destroy something.

Get to it!

Sorce

 

[just.wing.it]

Welcome!
I think all 3 of those plants should be outdoors, FYI.
It might be OK for a while...
I have a friend who has surprised me by keeping some plants indoors, for longer than I expected, but they always go crispy eventually...
Some Chinese elms, maybe can do OK indoors, depending on where it originated...but the plum and juniper should be outdoors for sure...

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong....

 

[Zoomie]

Welcome!

I'm brand new as well. And I have no Bonsai yet as my rack wont be here until tomorrow. I have exercised a tremendous amount of self-restraint by not making purchases until I have a place to keep them. And its all but killed me. That said, I really want this to be a successful journey so I'm trying to avoid making things harder than they have to be for myself.

If you prefer Bonsai indoors, then you'll have to attempt to travel the same road I'm currently on. Identify those species which can potentially tolerate lower light levels. And speaking with great ignorance here, develop a lighting system to keep your specimens healthy.

I suspect that your perceived quest for perfectionism can be both a blessing and a curse. Knowing when to harness it, and when to run away from it to avoid over-working a tree, will be the tricky part.

 

[Zoomie]

I have done a fair bit of home work, in addition to speaking with a few experienced folks.

For my start, I've narrowed my focus to those species that are generally accepted as being beginner tolerant and potentially indoor tolerant.
You may want to see if any of these speak to your soul.

Ficus, Brazillian Rain Tree, Hawaiian Umbrella, and Fukien Tea come up a lot in in threads as being both beginner friendly and potentially tolerant of low light.

Based on what I've learned thus far, second tier, or a little more difficult indoors are Chinese Elm, Sweet Plum and Zanthoxylum aka Aromatic Pepper.

After these (again, from a beginner's perspective) it gets really sketchy. Example, There's a guy named Lan that lives in Manhatten I believe. He has had great success indoors with a number of light hungry species ie Juniper and others. That said, he freely admits that the learning curve was brutal on how far he can push indoors.

I guess my point is that as new folks, I believe that we should try and work with the well-knowns until we develop a knowledge base and experience before working on the fringes with a challenging species.

Pulling for you on your new journey. I''ll be happy to share the little I know (and I mean little). I'm setting myself up to work with three lighting types and will be sharing any good, bad, and ugly that comes from it.

 

[sorce]

have done a fair bit of home work

Yes you have!

You're going to kill it! (Good thing)

Feel free to share the frogs and fish....

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/of-toads-and-other-pets.20633/

Design is design is design is design....

Beautiful tanks help Bonsai!

Sorce

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@MGW
The 3 you have, generally are considered outdoor trees in mild climates that stay above freezing. The juniper is winter hardy through the entire UK, and EU for that matter.

In colder climates they can be good outdoors for summer, indoors for winter. The juniper will do better if kept outdoors for winter.

The only juniper that has been successful under lights is the procumbens juniper.t It is slightly more shade tolerant and has a lower requirement for a cold period to initiate new growth. Your light garden needs to be very bright to keep it happy.

The Chinese sweet plum, will not tolerate more than a light frost. It can do well indoors, but is a bit touchy. You'll either do well, or it will die, even some experienced growers, like myself, can't keep it growing.

Chinese Elm is probably the most adaptable of your list.

 

[BigBen]

Welcome aboard, enjoy your stay!

 

[MGW]

So I've taken the advice and moved the other 2 outside onto a temporary bench until I can sort something else out. I'm a bit gutted about that but I want to do what is best for the trees.

In the interests of learning, these were both sold to me as "indoor trees" and were positioned by window with good light so why do they have to go outside?

Also - should I bring them in on nights if it's frosty or sub zero during Nov, Dec, Jan?

Thanks for teaching me!

 

[Zoomie]

MGW, First, don’t be gutted. It’s part of the learning curve. You have committed no felonies. From my perspective, it’s a blessing as you were wise enough to seek advice BEFORE you had a problem. Most of us new folk usually don’t come here asking questions until someone’s playing taps for the bonsai.

I am too new to speak intelligently about your specific questions. I’ll leave that to the experts. What I will say is that as new people, we don’t ever really know how much a sales person knows. Further, we don’t know if the advice offered is sound based on our level of knowledge. I’ve seen amazing things thriving indoors. But just because one person does the impossible, does not mean that I have the ability to do the same thing.

Don’t be discouraged. Seek proper care for each of your species FOR MERE MORTALS, and all will be well. Read up on both hearty species for beginners as well as generally accepted indoor species.

If there is one thing I strongly believe it’s that this group of folks will always put a bonsai’s health above all else. Yes, even a mallsai. My point being that you have innumerable experts here. If you’re truly committed to succeed, no one here will let you fail.

Smile brother. It’s miniature trees!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

My opinion of the seller that sold these trees is not very high. The seller is just retailing trees as a commodity, of which he knows little, probably the retailer never kept a house plant alive much less a ''bonsai''. When traveling in southeast asia, the more tropical regions, there is no clear line between indoors and outdoors of a home. Many homes have interior courtyards, exposed to the sky that are considered ''inside the house''. When these people wholesale mass produced trees to westerners, they may be thinking about something quite different than you in the UK or me in the USA when we say ''indoors''.

No matter, I've seen this often. It just goes with the ''mallsai'' territory. Lower end mass produced bonsai. I bet the price did not look lower end to you, that is part of the marketing. In time you will be able to produce better material than these trees from very inexpensive starts in less than 4 years each. But enjoy your plants.

The juniper, it does not have very dense foliage, it looks rather sparse. This is what I would expect from being growin indoors or low light situations. Give it 2 years outdoors, left outdoors year round, and you won't recognize it. It will be very dense, and a very healthy green, possibly with a blue-ish tint. I would leave the juniper outside to experience the cold, it needs cold to mature its foliage before winter.

The others would be more dense if at least summered outdoors,

Myself, I would leave the elm outdoors, it is very cold hardy, but if you want to bring it in, you can. Once you start bringing it in, you can not change your mind, it takes at least 6 weeks to 2 months to build cold hardiness, one warm night indoors will undo a full weeks worth of the metabolic adaptations the tree does to get ready for winter.

If you do bring the elm in, I would first leave it out to get 2 or 3 light frosts, it will drop some or all of its leaves, then bring it in. Leave it on a cool windowsill for at least a month, then move it to you light garden where the warmth will tell it is spring. And it should start growing.

Sweet plum - bring it in before first frost, warm and bright in the light garden will be great.

 

[MGW]

My opinion of the seller that sold these trees is not very high. The seller is just retailing trees as a commodity, of which he knows little, probably the retailer never kept a house plant alive much less a ''bonsai''. When traveling in southeast asia, the more tropical regions, there is no clear line between indoors and outdoors of a home. Many homes have interior courtyards, exposed to the sky that are considered ''inside the house''. When these people wholesale mass produced trees to westerners, they may be thinking about something quite different than you in the UK or me in the USA when we say ''indoors''.

No matter, I've seen this often. It just goes with the ''mallsai'' territory. Lower end mass produced bonsai. I bet the price did not look lower end to you, that is part of the marketing. In time you will be able to produce better material than these trees from very inexpensive starts in less than 4 years each. But enjoy your plants.

The juniper, it does not have very dense foliage, it looks rather sparse. This is what I would expect from being growin indoors or low light situations. Give it 2 years outdoors, left outdoors year round, and you won't recognize it. It will be very dense, and a very healthy green, possibly with a blue-ish tint. I would leave the juniper outside to experience the cold, it needs cold to mature its foliage before winter.

The others would be more dense if at least summered outdoors,

Myself, I would leave the elm outdoors, it is very cold hardy, but if you want to bring it in, you can. Once you start bringing it in, you can not change your mind, it takes at least 6 weeks to 2 months to build cold hardiness, one warm night indoors will undo a full weeks worth of the metabolic adaptations the tree does to get ready for winter.

If you do bring the elm in, I would first leave it out to get 2 or 3 light frosts, it will drop some or all of its leaves, then bring it in. Leave it on a cool windowsill for at least a month, then move it to you light garden where the warmth will tell it is spring. And it should start growing.

Sweet plum - bring it in before first frost, warm and bright in the light garden will be great.

Thank you for taking the time to advise me on this. Cam I just clarify, regarding the Elm. It's been inside for 6 months. I've moved it outside tonight (first night tonight). You are suggesting that I simply leave it outside permanently ideally and never bring it in?

Also - what do you mean by light garden?

Thank you.

 

[Tieball]

I like what you’ve done to the Juniper. Once it grows out more, outside all year, the foliage will fill in more and I think you have an excellent start on the design. Read up on Junipers, or ask around, to familiarize yourself with the Juniper growth habits. You want more foliage...but you might not really want the branches just getting longer with just growth on the outside...losing foliage growth closer to the trunk. I think you’ll want to encourage back budding on the branches you have.

Nice work so far. Mighty fine!

 

[klosi]

Hi MGW.
Since you're from UK, I would advise you to browse through Harrys site:
http://www.bonsai4me.com/
It has so many information and is directly linked to your climate. It has a beginners section and advanced articles. Good luck!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Thank you for taking the time to advise me on this. Cam I just clarify, regarding the Elm. It's been inside for 6 months. I've moved it outside tonight (first night tonight). You are suggesting that I simply leave it outside permanently ideally and never bring it in?

Also - what do you mean by light garden?

Thank you.

Elm, if it were mine, I'd move it outside. So the answer is yes.

Must you move it outside? The answer is no. The elm will continue to grow if you keep it indoors. In my experience, the growth indoors will be weak compared to growth outdoors. But the elm will survive, they do persist.

Most people who grow indoors quickly run out of windowsill space, and end up setting up a specialized light set up to grow plants under, loosely referred to as a "light garden". It is slang, doesn't refer to a specific under lights set up.

 

[M. Frary]

I'm a bit gutted about that but I want to do what is best for the trees.

Being outside is not only good for your trees but for you too.
And in my opinion the best bonsai are the ones we keep outside all year.
Once acclimated to the outdoors your elm will thrive. Not just survive. You'll be shocked at how much it will grow outside next year.

 

[Ingvill]

I have no advice to give, I'm a complete rookie myself, just wanted to welcome you to the forums

I recently bought a couple of Zelkova Elms myself, being told they are an all year indoor type of tree.
So you are not alone in getting incomplete (or sometimes plain wrong) information, I'm afraid it seems very common.
So thankfully there are so many experienced and knowledgable people here, just waiting for us to pick their brains :-D

Wish you the best of luck with your first trees, do keep us posted on how they do in the future!