Anyone here having a business with bonsai. My husband and I, both love to make bonsai and we have a nursery in Toronto. But we are not getting much profit from it. So we are looking for some other methods to boost up the business and got some ideas while surfing (http://www.grassrootsadvertising.com/blog/marketing/4-affordable-marketing-strategies/). Can someone suggest better business ideas for increasing the sales?
Bonsai nursery
- Thread starter Beverly
- Start date
PeaceLoveBonsai
Chumono
Welcome Beverly!
Do you have a website for your business?
Do you have a website for your business?
bonsaidave
Shohin
Some people hate Facebook. Maybe setup a Google+ page also. Find anything you can to get info out to the public. There are lots of free ways to promote your business online and offline.
Make sure your Google maps info is up to date and add some pictures if possible. Good pictures not crappy ones.
Talk to your customers. Ask 2 questions what did they like and is there anything that could be better.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Make sure your Google maps info is up to date and add some pictures if possible. Good pictures not crappy ones.
Talk to your customers. Ask 2 questions what did they like and is there anything that could be better.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
StoneCloud
Omono
Make sure you are listed in the public directories as well like the yellow pages etc...
Set up workshops
Advertise Sales or promotions
Leave your business cards on bulletin boards at home improvement warehouses
Create your own website first with your own domain before making a facebook page.
Offer referral discounts if customers send friends or family
welcome to the forum!!!!
Set up workshops
Advertise Sales or promotions
Leave your business cards on bulletin boards at home improvement warehouses
Create your own website first with your own domain before making a facebook page.
Offer referral discounts if customers send friends or family
welcome to the forum!!!!
PeaceLoveBonsai
Chumono
I don't own a Bonsai nursery...but I do own a small business.
Using the link you provided, some suggestions might include:
1. Start w/ Content - Take a video (w/ your phone even) of your current stock, or maybe 2 or 3 trees at a time.
2. Get Social: Then post to your Facebook page
3. RePurpose Existing Assets: I don't know your business assets, but if you've been in the game a while, break out some of your old books. Give them away on your Facebook page to people who "like" the page. People love free stuff.
4. Join Forces w/ Industry Leaders: I've never been to Toronto, but I've heard they have beautiful gardens. Connect w/ those organizations and create value for them (don't just attend a meeting). Once you've created value for one of those organizations, they will want to return the favor...that's when you advertise or introduce your company for little or no $$.
Just a my 2 cents...always easier to critique a company when you've haven't walked a day in there shoes, but it would be my approach if I was in your shoes.
Good Luck!!
Using the link you provided, some suggestions might include:
1. Start w/ Content - Take a video (w/ your phone even) of your current stock, or maybe 2 or 3 trees at a time.
2. Get Social: Then post to your Facebook page
3. RePurpose Existing Assets: I don't know your business assets, but if you've been in the game a while, break out some of your old books. Give them away on your Facebook page to people who "like" the page. People love free stuff.
4. Join Forces w/ Industry Leaders: I've never been to Toronto, but I've heard they have beautiful gardens. Connect w/ those organizations and create value for them (don't just attend a meeting). Once you've created value for one of those organizations, they will want to return the favor...that's when you advertise or introduce your company for little or no $$.
Just a my 2 cents...always easier to critique a company when you've haven't walked a day in there shoes, but it would be my approach if I was in your shoes.
Good Luck!!
StoneCloud
Omono
You make a good point. One thing to think about with Facebook is that you will now have to immediately (within reason) respond to people on your page. It will have to always be monitored. Sometimes a FB could end up being a negative addtion to a business plan. Many studies have been done on this as well.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Make sure you make a web page. Having a web site is more important than being in the Yellow Pages of 30 years ago. Make sure it is just a web page or site - NOT a page on Facebook where people have to have an account in order to visit / participate. Facebook pages just mean "I don't care enough to create a real web site".
Make sure you carry what people want to buy... and not just what you want to sell. If you have a nursery, consider carrying supplies that people need to use with nursery plants - like soil, aggregate, fertilizers and growing pots. These are not items that can be shipped easily / cost-effectively. Understand which bonsai supplies (pumice, lava rock, acadama, cut paste, organic fertilizer cakes and pellets, etc) are not carried by the big box retailers and carry them - people will start coming to you because they can't get their supplies anywhere else.
Partner with the local bonsai club. If there isn't one, consider creating one and have it meet at your nursery. Have special events - like sales on specific types of stock, or "replanting sale", or "we just bought a shipping container of acadama" sale. Create an email list of customers, and send out bi-weekly emails talking about care or whatever.
Make sure you carry what people want to buy... and not just what you want to sell. If you have a nursery, consider carrying supplies that people need to use with nursery plants - like soil, aggregate, fertilizers and growing pots. These are not items that can be shipped easily / cost-effectively. Understand which bonsai supplies (pumice, lava rock, acadama, cut paste, organic fertilizer cakes and pellets, etc) are not carried by the big box retailers and carry them - people will start coming to you because they can't get their supplies anywhere else.
Partner with the local bonsai club. If there isn't one, consider creating one and have it meet at your nursery. Have special events - like sales on specific types of stock, or "replanting sale", or "we just bought a shipping container of acadama" sale. Create an email list of customers, and send out bi-weekly emails talking about care or whatever.
Last edited:
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Sell weed out the back.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
More detailed reasons why to have a real web site and not a Facebook page:
(1) Over time the most important thing you will own is your brand - the name of your company. By having your own site, you have complete control over how your site looks and feels; what content you feature and how you feature it; what functions you will have. You also control the method in which they get to your site (the Internet) and can change service providers whenever you want and move your site for any reason. If you create all that equity at Facebook - you are stuck at Facebook, controlled by Facebook, if Facebook changes something you don't like - tough because you don't have an option to do anything about it.
(2) The second most valuable thing you will own is your customer list. If you create an account at Facebook, Facebook owns your customers. They know who they are, and how they got to your site. They control access to them. If you leave Facebook for any reason, you leave those customers behind and have to recreate links to them outside of Facebook. Worse yet, they can sell access to your customers to your competition.
(3) The third most valuable thing you will own is your content. ANYTHING you put on Facebook belongs to Facebook for all time. So if you post a lot of cool photos on your site, or a nursery care calendar, or photos of your nursery, Facebook owns that content. They make money on the traffic that goes to see that content - and you don't.
(4) When you have a page on Facebook, you are there at their whim. They can remove you for any reason. Imagine if you had a Facebook page for three years, created a lot of traffic, and suddenly, for whatever reason, Facebook kicks you off their site. You get to start over from scratch.
(5) Facebook has a very specific user profile. They do not represent the entire world, but rather a sub-segment of it. Additionally, their user profile is constantly changing, and they have lost many of their early adopters, and many of their core users have reduced their usage of the site. They guard this information as a proprietary trade secret. You have no real idea at any time who is using Facebook, and whether their user fits your user profile.
I could go on and on... Facebook is simply MySpace with a "like" button. There is nothing proprietary about it. Their technology is actually very rudimentary. I personally view them as a fad - but time will tell. They are the AOL of the 2010's
(1) Over time the most important thing you will own is your brand - the name of your company. By having your own site, you have complete control over how your site looks and feels; what content you feature and how you feature it; what functions you will have. You also control the method in which they get to your site (the Internet) and can change service providers whenever you want and move your site for any reason. If you create all that equity at Facebook - you are stuck at Facebook, controlled by Facebook, if Facebook changes something you don't like - tough because you don't have an option to do anything about it.
(2) The second most valuable thing you will own is your customer list. If you create an account at Facebook, Facebook owns your customers. They know who they are, and how they got to your site. They control access to them. If you leave Facebook for any reason, you leave those customers behind and have to recreate links to them outside of Facebook. Worse yet, they can sell access to your customers to your competition.
(3) The third most valuable thing you will own is your content. ANYTHING you put on Facebook belongs to Facebook for all time. So if you post a lot of cool photos on your site, or a nursery care calendar, or photos of your nursery, Facebook owns that content. They make money on the traffic that goes to see that content - and you don't.
(4) When you have a page on Facebook, you are there at their whim. They can remove you for any reason. Imagine if you had a Facebook page for three years, created a lot of traffic, and suddenly, for whatever reason, Facebook kicks you off their site. You get to start over from scratch.
(5) Facebook has a very specific user profile. They do not represent the entire world, but rather a sub-segment of it. Additionally, their user profile is constantly changing, and they have lost many of their early adopters, and many of their core users have reduced their usage of the site. They guard this information as a proprietary trade secret. You have no real idea at any time who is using Facebook, and whether their user fits your user profile.
I could go on and on... Facebook is simply MySpace with a "like" button. There is nothing proprietary about it. Their technology is actually very rudimentary. I personally view them as a fad - but time will tell. They are the AOL of the 2010's
ColinFraser
Masterpiece
The way to make a million bucks in bonsai is to start with 2 million
parhamr
Omono
I suspect @Woody Carverton has a lot of opinions about this, but yet I believe Woody is doing his bonsai stuff for the love of it and not for a living.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I sound like I'm really down on Facebook, but I actually think Facebook can be a cool place - as long as people understand what they're getting into and the extreme security risks and control limitations. I created a Bonsai Nut account on Facebook specifically so that I could participate in the bonsai auctions.
But I refuse to confirm my name, my birthday, my address, or pretty much any personal information. They could probably figure it all out... but I refuse to make it easy for them. Assume that everything you do on Facebook is being sold to the highest bidder, and is 100% public, and could be viewed by your spouse/mom/children/boss/stalker - for all time - and if it's still ok you'll probably be fine. That includes private messages and chat, and all of your "likes". And all of your friends and all of your friends' "likes".
I should also add - the security risk of Facebook comes from what YOU put on the site. I am often stunned at what intimate personal details people will put on Facebook - their photo, their name, where they live, where they work, their birthday, their phone number, etc. When you fill out a photo ID application, what information do you put on it? Your photo, your name, your address, your job, your date of birth, your phone number... The first thing companies do right now when you apply for a job is look for your account on Facebook to see what kind of incriminating private details of your personal life you are willing to share with the public. Don't go there. Facebook doesn't make it easy - they keep asking your for your personal information - where you were born, where you went to school, where you have worked. Don't give it to them. If they persist - lie. I've lived at 123 Main Street, Anytown, USA for quite some time on the Internet.
Last edited:
Woody Carverton
Mame
- Messages
- 177
- Reaction score
- 335
I'm probably going to come out of this like the Grinch who stole Christmas, but I am a realist, and if it walks like a dog, barks like a dog, I the kind of man who is just going to call it a dog.
The best time to start a bonsai business that is going to be profitable on a measurable scale this year, was 25 years ago.
In todays digital era, everyone has access to a lot more info and material then in the past. The trees that are selling for larger profit this year, are at least 25 years old in most cases. Sure, you can start some cuttings this year, grow them out for a few years, and sell them for a few dollars profit each 2-3 or even 5 years from now. But a persons time is worth money also. When you calculate the man hours invested into those trees, you'll be making about -$15 per hour (thats Negative 15). So there is no real money being made at all.
There are several nurseries who operate on a commercial scale, with machines and business processes that allow them to crank out things like 5-10 year old Itoigawas and Shimpakus for $30 each. Unless you invest the money in infrastructure today you're never going to compete, at least until 10-15 years after you get set up properly. Sure you can go get some Yamadori, wire them up and sell them for a little profit. but that's not sustainable.
People today, except those brand new to the hobby are wise enough to know, the best and cheapest way to get into the hobby is Yamadori. Or in other words, go to the woods, a local landscaper, or your neighbors yard waste pile after they rip something out of their landscape and find yourself material for your beautiful bonsai that has already went through the growth phase, and is ready for development and refining.
Throwing some wire on a few year old piece of stock and calling it a bonsai is the equivalent of a Mallsai. So even in that aspect, you cannot compete. There are several commercial nurseries who make those on huge scales already. They get their pots cheaper than you, their junk soil cheaper than you, their stock cheaper than you, can feed and water cheaper than you, can ship trees cheaper than you, and can do it all with a lot less labor than you because of their machines. They are everywhere online, and can sell mallsai cheaper than you can produce them.
I could really go on for days upon days here on this but I have about 35,000 trees to tend to today so i am going to wrap it up with a quick summary.
Bonsai is not a business you are going to start today, or even a few years ago that is going to be profitable any time soon. The profit margins on bonsai typically start at the 15 year mark for small operations. Being in a $500 refined tree, you have usually about $20-$40 in profit to be made after calculating in things like your wire for all those years, water, fertilizer, anti-disease measures like pesticides and fungicides, and labor @ minimum wage, for all the time you have invested into the tree.
If you are set on making money with bonsai, and you are less than 10-15 or even 25 years into your business, you really have only 2 options:
1: Become a broker
That is, buy some plane tickets, rent some cars, put on some miles, scour the country and find as many quality bonsai as you can for as cheap as you can get someone to sell it to you, then bring it back to your nursery, clean it up and sell it. I put on over 45,000 Miles from late January through last week on buying trips to find specimens in the USA. If I had any interest in selling any of them, I could certainly turn about $30,000 profit even after airfaire, rental cars, hotels, etc. But the thing is, I would have invested nearly $100,000 to make that $30,000 profit. I know of only 2 true bonsai brokers here in the USA, i am sure the situation is not too much different in CA. Being a broker is the only bonsai business model that you can start now and be sustainable within a year. That is to say, earn a living wage running your own business. You spend $X.XX on a tree and sell it for $X.XX, you factor in cost of acquisition like travel etc. and there is your profit. But it takes money to make money. There is a Bonsai broker who uses Bnut forums, most people already know who i am talking about, i'm not going to call him out here. but i am sure if you find him, he will answer some questions about it.
2: Bonsai pottery
People are paying sometimes up to 10 times more money then they have invested in their trees for the containers they put them in. I'm not giving away the secret sauce on this one as currently this is how I am turning profits to further fund our garden project without bleeding my retirement fund dry. But in summary, there is money to be made in bonsai pottery, and you can earn a living wage doing it if done right. You'll have to do your own homework on it though.
Conclusion:
If your trying to make money in bonsai;
DONT
Start a bunch of trees from seed or cutting and think you are going to make a business out of selling them. Unless you put no value on your time, you will not make money at this for at least 10-15 years.
DO
Start looking for bargains on quality trees in which you can purchase then sell at a profit.
Start dealing in quality bonsai pottery
The best time to start a bonsai business that is going to be profitable on a measurable scale this year, was 25 years ago.
In todays digital era, everyone has access to a lot more info and material then in the past. The trees that are selling for larger profit this year, are at least 25 years old in most cases. Sure, you can start some cuttings this year, grow them out for a few years, and sell them for a few dollars profit each 2-3 or even 5 years from now. But a persons time is worth money also. When you calculate the man hours invested into those trees, you'll be making about -$15 per hour (thats Negative 15). So there is no real money being made at all.
There are several nurseries who operate on a commercial scale, with machines and business processes that allow them to crank out things like 5-10 year old Itoigawas and Shimpakus for $30 each. Unless you invest the money in infrastructure today you're never going to compete, at least until 10-15 years after you get set up properly. Sure you can go get some Yamadori, wire them up and sell them for a little profit. but that's not sustainable.
People today, except those brand new to the hobby are wise enough to know, the best and cheapest way to get into the hobby is Yamadori. Or in other words, go to the woods, a local landscaper, or your neighbors yard waste pile after they rip something out of their landscape and find yourself material for your beautiful bonsai that has already went through the growth phase, and is ready for development and refining.
Throwing some wire on a few year old piece of stock and calling it a bonsai is the equivalent of a Mallsai. So even in that aspect, you cannot compete. There are several commercial nurseries who make those on huge scales already. They get their pots cheaper than you, their junk soil cheaper than you, their stock cheaper than you, can feed and water cheaper than you, can ship trees cheaper than you, and can do it all with a lot less labor than you because of their machines. They are everywhere online, and can sell mallsai cheaper than you can produce them.
I could really go on for days upon days here on this but I have about 35,000 trees to tend to today so i am going to wrap it up with a quick summary.
Bonsai is not a business you are going to start today, or even a few years ago that is going to be profitable any time soon. The profit margins on bonsai typically start at the 15 year mark for small operations. Being in a $500 refined tree, you have usually about $20-$40 in profit to be made after calculating in things like your wire for all those years, water, fertilizer, anti-disease measures like pesticides and fungicides, and labor @ minimum wage, for all the time you have invested into the tree.
If you are set on making money with bonsai, and you are less than 10-15 or even 25 years into your business, you really have only 2 options:
1: Become a broker
That is, buy some plane tickets, rent some cars, put on some miles, scour the country and find as many quality bonsai as you can for as cheap as you can get someone to sell it to you, then bring it back to your nursery, clean it up and sell it. I put on over 45,000 Miles from late January through last week on buying trips to find specimens in the USA. If I had any interest in selling any of them, I could certainly turn about $30,000 profit even after airfaire, rental cars, hotels, etc. But the thing is, I would have invested nearly $100,000 to make that $30,000 profit. I know of only 2 true bonsai brokers here in the USA, i am sure the situation is not too much different in CA. Being a broker is the only bonsai business model that you can start now and be sustainable within a year. That is to say, earn a living wage running your own business. You spend $X.XX on a tree and sell it for $X.XX, you factor in cost of acquisition like travel etc. and there is your profit. But it takes money to make money. There is a Bonsai broker who uses Bnut forums, most people already know who i am talking about, i'm not going to call him out here. but i am sure if you find him, he will answer some questions about it.
2: Bonsai pottery
People are paying sometimes up to 10 times more money then they have invested in their trees for the containers they put them in. I'm not giving away the secret sauce on this one as currently this is how I am turning profits to further fund our garden project without bleeding my retirement fund dry. But in summary, there is money to be made in bonsai pottery, and you can earn a living wage doing it if done right. You'll have to do your own homework on it though.
Conclusion:
If your trying to make money in bonsai;
DONT
Start a bunch of trees from seed or cutting and think you are going to make a business out of selling them. Unless you put no value on your time, you will not make money at this for at least 10-15 years.
DO
Start looking for bargains on quality trees in which you can purchase then sell at a profit.
Start dealing in quality bonsai pottery
Steve Kudela
Shohin
Christmas Stealer!!! LOL Actually a very good dose of realism.
Wilson
Masterpiece
@Beverly what is the name of your nursery? Where is the business located? @f1pt4 is a member from Toronto, and involved with the Toronto bonsai society, and maybe can help spread the word. I am in Québec, but will be down Easter weekend and would love to stop in! I do think in Canada there is a lack of suppliers for substrates and quality Ferts, amendments, and the like.
bonsaidave
Shohin
Ha. Nice write up you ol Grinch.
Bolero
Omono
Just FWIW...Last year at our little community Art Market in July I visited a little tent about 10' x 10' Marked up as Bonsai Plants, an Older maybe 55 or so Asian fellow from Atlanta was selling Juniper Procumbens Exclusively, from $35.00 up to $400.00, he had maybe a 100 trees, it was a 3 day event & he claimed to have sold roughly $2000.00 worth of Bonsai in 2 days...
He stayed in the area and was selling at 4 or 5 different Art Market events around SE Lower Michigan.
He stayed in the area and was selling at 4 or 5 different Art Market events around SE Lower Michigan.
Ironbeaver
Chumono
I'm in Toronto and wouldn't mind checking your place out. where are you located?
Similar threads
