California Heat

[Beng]

Hi all, there is a chance some of my trees will be moving to Southern California next year.

Aside from how the move would happen which of the following species will have problems in the Southern California heat/sun and mild winters? Shade cloth and wind protection wouldn't be an issue. I'm pretty sure most of the below would be fine. Have any of you on the west coast had problems growing any of these species? I was thinking white pine and perhaps larch would be problems but i'm not really sure.

Japanese Maple
Satsuki Azalea
Kurume Azalea
Cork Bark Elm
Quercus Rubar
Kangumi "silverberry"
Punica Granatum
Japanese Wisteria
Chinese Wisteria
Five Needle Pine
Itoigawa Shimpaku
Kishu Shimpaku
Ponderosa Pine
Scots Pine
Engelmann Spruce
Birds Nest Spruce
Hemlock
Japanese Larch
Korean Hornbeam
Sakura "japanese cherry"
Crabapple
Chaenomeles japonica (Japanese Quince)
Kingsville Boxwood
Ilex Serrata
Bittersweet
English Hawthorne
Arctic Willow

 

[QuintinBonsai]

Definitely use the shade cloth if you say you can provide it. I would if I could.

Japanese and Trident Maples. They grow here okay. They suffer from leaf burn though.

Japanese Black Pines grow here just fine.

Ponderosa pine grow here in the heat with no problem. While on a trip to Vegas, I saw a small grove growing in the Red Rock Canyon National Conservation.

Five Needle Pine. I had one of these in the past. It did not like our summers. I'm experimenting with a grafted Eastern White Pine on a black pine root stock. So far it's doing okay. A few needles are browning, but we'll see how it goes.

Punica Granatum/Pomegranates love full sun, and do very well in this climate.

Sakura Cherry trees. I've had two cherries as saplings, and they suffered leaf burn from the sun.

Korean Hornbeam. Leaf burn again.

Japanese Quince. I have a pink flowering quince that is continuously putting out shoots.

Azaleas do well. They're always selling them in garden centers.

Junipers do well here. Shimpakus adapt well to our heat.

Spruces. I'm not so sure you can successfully keep a spruce "thriving" in Southern California. That seems to be more of a northern tree. Just to keep in mind that SoCal does have it's micro-climates so you might be able to pull it off.

 

[Beng]

Definitely use the shade cloth if you say you can provide it. I would if I could.

Japanese and Trident Maples. They grow here okay. They suffer from leaf burn though.

Japanese Black Pines grow here just fine.

Ponderosa pine grow here in the heat with no problem. While on a trip to Vegas, I saw a small grove growing in the Red Rock Canyon National Conservation.

Five Needle Pine. I had one of these in the past. It did not like our summers. I'm experimenting with a grafted Eastern White Pine on a black pine root stock. So far it's doing okay. A few needles are browning, but we'll see how it goes.

Punica Granatum/Pomegranates love full sun, and do very well in this climate.

Sakura Cherry trees. I've had two cherries as saplings, and they suffered leaf burn from the sun.

Korean Hornbeam. Leaf burn again.

Japanese Quince. I have a pink flowering quince that is continuously putting out shoots.

Azaleas do well. They're always selling them in garden centers.

Junipers do well here. Shimpakus adapt well to our heat.

Spruces. I'm not so sure you can successfully keep a spruce "thriving" in Southern California. That seems to be more of a northern tree. Just to keep in mind that SoCal does have it's micro-climates so you might be able to pull it off.

Yes I'd imagine close to the ocean on the west side would be a microclimate. As would further south like la jolla. Although perhaps spruce need a longer colder winter?

 

[bonsaibp]

Give the white pines, spruces and larches away. The J. maples will pretty much fry by june unless you're up in the mountains where it can go dormant longer than 6-8 weeks which is about what they get here. Hornbeams are ok if you protect them in summer. The rest should be fine.
One of the biggest problems isn't so much the heat as the lack of dormant time on top of the heat.

 

[QuintinBonsai]

Yes I'd imagine close to the ocean on the west side would be a microclimate. As would further south like la jolla. Although perhaps spruce need a longer colder winter?

I take it you're moving to San Diego County? Carlsbad, La Jolla, Oceanside are very cool(temperature wise) compared to the rest of San Diego. Pricey areas to live in, but I'm sure you already knew that. For the higher inland areas like Julian, Mount Laguna, or Palomar Mountain you'd be okay.

 

[Beng]

Thanks Bob, when I last lived in Los Angeles I had a coral bark maple for about 6 years with no problems. Kept it in the shade year round and it was not a bonsai rather a large tree. Perhaps the heat breaks the dormancy in a small pot in the winter? If so maybe burying it a few inches deep would give it what it needs.

 

[Beng]

I take it you're moving to San Diego County? Carlsbad, La Jolla, Oceanside are very cool(temperature wise) compared to the rest of San Diego. Pricey areas to live in, but I'm sure you already knew that. For the higher inland areas like Julian, Mount Laguna, or Palomar Mountain you'd be okay.

We're still thinking about it, it would either be those areas or the west side of Los Angeles, culver city/Santa Monica.

 

[iant]

Due to the ocean influence Santa Monica gets close to zero chill hours per year. You'd probably have to put the Malus and Prunus in a fridge for a couple months in the winter. I used to live in Hollywood several years back and I lost my Acer palmatum there but I didn't know then what I know now about morning versus afternoon sun and spring and fall vs summer...
Ian

 

[Beng]

I had a white flowered traditional mume I bought from Bobs nursery years ago. I lived in culver city those 6 years. It was real happy in California it dropped its leaves each fall and woke up each spring without issue. When I moved back to NY it was in the fall and it broke dormancy in our moving truck and passed away that winter. I loved that little tree ;(. In fact i'd say Mume did better there then here as the leaves tend to have fungal problems on the wet east coast and the cracking of their bark from multiple winter freeze thaws can kill them. Brent's evergreengardenworks site has an article about this problem with their bark expanding and cracking leading to fungal infections I believe.

I too quickly wrote out this list with all tree types I have without thinking which i really needed advice on.
I took trident maple, and black pine off the list as I worked with those when I last lived in California with no problems. Thanks everyone with the thoughts and advice so far.

 

[milehigh_7]

Your crab will live but it won't flower. I have a 'Prairie Fire' crab that grows like gangbusters but has never bloomed in 5 years.

 

[milehigh_7]

Definitely use the shade cloth if you say you can provide it. I would if I could.


Ponderosa pine grow here in the heat with no problem. While on a trip to Vegas, I saw a small grove growing in the Red Rock Canyon National Conservation.

Likely what you saw here is Pinus eldarica or Pinus halepensis if you drove up to Mt. Charleston you might have seen Pinus ponderosa.

 

[nathanbs]

Apparently I have a green thumb as I successfully have ume, crabapple, and j. Maple,

 

[QuintinBonsai]

Likely what you saw here is Pinus eldarica or Pinus halepensis if you drove up to Mt. Charleston you might have seen Pinus ponderosa.

Well I was just going along the sign that was posted in the visitor center. I don't know... It doesn't seem right to introduce a non native species to a national conservation.

 

[milehigh_7]

Well I was just going along the sign that was posted in the visitor center. I don't know... It doesn't seem right to introduce a non native species to a national conservation.

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Ah okay this area has really quite extreme ecosystem changes is a very small area. I mentioned Mt. Charleston which in about 45 minutes from my house I can be at bristlecone pines. Down in the City where I live a Ponderosa would never live, or at least would not be considered hardy.

 

[Beng]

Give the white pines, spruces and larches away. The J. maples will pretty much fry by june unless you're up in the mountains where it can go dormant longer than 6-8 weeks which is about what they get here. Hornbeams are ok if you protect them in summer. The rest should be fine.
One of the biggest problems isn't so much the heat as the lack of dormant time on top of the heat.

Bob have you tried ponderosa or scots pine in your area? Online charts say they are only hardy from zones 5-9. Since most of southern california is zone 10 or higher I wonder if they would survive.

 

[milehigh_7]

Bob is right about the lack of dormancy because you really don't have "heat" in the LA / San Diego area... Don't tell me about heat till you get 120F.

 

[bonsaibp]

Bob have you tried ponderosa or scots pine in your area? Online charts say they are only hardy from zones 5-9. Since most of southern california is zone 10 or higher I wonder if they would survive.

Never tried Ponderosa- Scots Pine is a no go as are Mugos.

 

[Beng]

Never tried Ponderosa- Scots Pine is a no go as are Mugos.

Man if I move I'm going to have some great material to sell off then....

 

[bonsaibp]

Man if I move I'm going to have some great material to sell off then....

Then you'll have $ for new stuf here!

 

[Poink88]

Then you'll have $ for new stuf here!

Correct! From what I've seen, you will probably come up ahead if you sell most of your trees (leaving just the best few) and purchase in CA. Their stock bonsai prices seem a lot cheaper than elsewhere.

Good luck!