Candles a' pushin'

[bonsaiBlake]

So here's my mugo(slip potted about 1.5mo ago), dwarf alberta spruce(purchased on mothers day), and 2 twoyear Eastern white pine seedings(came bare rooted in mail 2mo ago). All cominging along nicely. All the candles are pushing good, the mugo has fully opened all of its new needles. Just kind of wondering where I'm at compared to other parts of the country growing season wise?

 

[Paradox]

Your mugo is about the same as one of mine. I have a couple of other mugos that are slightly behind, but those were a bit stressed coming out of winter compared to the one that is at the same point as yours.

 

[Adair M]

Blake,

Just so you know, Alberta Spruce and Eastern White Pine don't respond to bonsai techniques very well. You have chosen very difficult material.

 

[bonsaiBlake]

Blake,

Just so you know, Alberta Spruce and Eastern White Pine don't respond to bonsai techniques very well. You have chosen very difficult material.

So I've learned. After getting the trees I did tons of reading on the species' and realized the shortcomings of the trees I chose. At the same time I've always been an outside of the box person. Rob's work with DAS really gives me some hope. Havent seen but a few examples of EWP as good bonsai. I figure if i can keep these guys alive and vigorus then by the time all of my juniper and ponderosa seedinglings are ready for work in a few years i might be able to do more good than harm. At the very least I'll learn something so it wont be totally pointless. Thanks for the advice genuinely appreciated.

 

[KennedyMarx]

Rob's dwarf Alberta spruce looked great, but I'm pretty sure it died shortly after that styling. Maybe he will chime in about it.

 

[RKatzin]

Blake,

Just so you know, Alberta Spruce and Eastern White Pine don't respond to bonsai techniques very well. You have chosen very difficult material.

Ten years ago I was getting the same response concerning Mugo Pine. Trouble was everyone was treating them like every other pine, Well, we've learned something about mugo and perhaps we can not treat DAS like every other Spruce.

 

[RKatzin]

Check out these candles on my little Aristata. That's my eight inch hori hori blade.

 

[Adair M]

You can style Alberta spruce so that they look amazing. Then they die.

You will learn something. Not to use DAS.

All of us only have so much time on this Earth. Use it wisely. Others before you have tried DAS, and learned it only brings heartbreak. Especially if you are new to bonsai, use the tried and true species to "Learn from". You will enjoy the journey a LOT more.

Eastern White pine always has long needles, and long internodes. They never get that "full" look. They don't develop nice bark quickly. Again, pass.

I've been doing this over 40 years. In all that time, I've never seen any good DAS or EWP. EWP will live, but the final results aren't worth the effort.

I'm not here to insult you or anything like that. I'm trying to get you started on the road to success. You'll have more fun with the traditional bonsai species, at least to start. Once you get some success under your belt, then you can try more difficult subjects.

 

[jeanluc83]

I often wonder whether the traditional Japanese species (black pine, white pine, trident maple, etc.) are really better suited for bonsai or have they just been grown so much that the technique for each has been well refined. The Japanese have also had the time to identify and cultivate the varieties and cultivars with the characteristics most suitable for bonsai.

The cultivars of eastern white pine in the US have been propagated for landscape use. There may very well be a variety of eastern white pine that is suitable for bonsai it just hasn’t been identified yet.

 

[Adair M]

I don't think Trident Maple is native to Japan. They found the species, and discovered it made great bonsai, and started using it.

Chinese Elm, too.

I'm not a Historian, but I believe that bonsai actually began in China. Then the Japanese copied the Chinese and "refined" the art.

I'm not saying there aren't other worthy species. But the traditional species are the easiest to do. There's lots of documentation of techniques. Models to use as you're learning.

Then there are just some species that no matter what you do, just aren't suitable. Southern Magnolia, for example. Nothing you can do will shrink the leaves to any kind of suitable scale. Want to waste a decade? Try to make a bonsai out of a Southern Magnolia. Many oaks are the same way. They just won't reduce their leaf size. Ever see a bonsai palm tree? Didn't think so.

There is so much challenge and diversity using the known species, those ought to be mastered by the novice before trying to work with difficult species. If you wanted to be a mountain climber, would Mt. Everest be the first mountain you'd climb?

 

[jeanluc83]

I guess my point was that the Chinese and Japanese have a long bonsai history measured in centuries. In that time certain cultivars have been identified as being best suited for bonsai. The technique specific for each species has been developed. The bonsai history of the US is measured in decades. We have just barely started to scratch the surface when it comes to US native trees.

I’m not saying every species is suitable for bonsai but just because a species is “bad for bonsai” does not necessarily mean it should be cast aside. A suitable cultivar may need to be found or the proper technique may just need to be developed to work with the species.

I’m also not saying that every beginner should jump on the lost cause. Work with “easy” species but leave some room in the corner for experiments.

 

[october]

Rob's dwarf Alberta spruce looked great, but I'm pretty sure it died shortly after that styling. Maybe he will chime in about it.

Hi Kennedy,
The one from a couple of years ago died. However, the yamadori style one, the one I twisted up the entire trunk from last year is doing fantastic. I am really looking forward to styling this one this Fall.

Rob

 

[bonsaiBlake]

I'm not here to insult you or anything like that. I'm trying to get you started on the road to success. You'll have more fun with the traditional bonsai species, at least to start. Once you get some success under your belt, then you can try more difficult subjects.

I understand comepletley where your coming from. I may be only 23 but I actually listen to those who have walked before me.

The trees will probably end up as landscaping or potted patio trees. DAS does very well here due to its high wind tolerance, 10-15' tall is commonsight in neighbors yards. The EWP were just too cheap to pass and i just want to keep them alive.

I'm a bit on the froogle side so lack of funds has forced me to start all of the good bonsai stock from seed. Lots of seeds.The longest route possible i know, but I'm really in no rush.

Again I really appreciate the advice from all of you guys.

Rob,
What time of year did you repot that yamadori DAS?

 

[october]

Rob,
What time of year did you repot that yamadori DAS?

I haven't repotted it yet. It will be repotted next spring. Spruce are normally pruned and wired in Fall. They are repotted in early Spring. New growth is pinched/cut in late Spring before the growth hardens off.

Rob