CE - No new growth this year

ConorDash

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So I have a dilemma, and it doesn't hurt to get opinions. I've spoken to Bobby about this a bit, as much as he is sick of it (I don't care :)).

This CE has been ground grown for the last 3 years. It was dug up at the end of February, I wouldn't have said a lot of roots were cut off. It has grown to about 10ft tall. Like so..

WhatsApp Image 2021-05-10 at 14.33.57.jpeg

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In terms of energy, it should be bursting with it.

It is now coming to the end of May and has yet to put out a single leaf.. That's not quite true, I see a few little random leaves but they aren't proper ones. It has buds, everywhere, loads of buds set. But refuses to grow.

The factors:
Chinese Elm
Its grown unabetted for 3 years in the ground.
The weather has been the WORST May since records began (in UK).
Other CE in pots were late, with my last just popping now. So this tree is officially the last.
I have scratched many a branch and all green, from the base twigs, to the top branches.

At the moment, the most likely cause, is the weather in my opinion. Combined with digging it up, its sulking. Massively.

So, what would you do?
 

ConorDash

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Currently these are my options:
Leave it
Cut down to about here:

View attachment 376405WhatsApp Image 2021-05-22 at 14.21.21.jpeg

This would not be the final cuts, simply this would remove all that extra branching and trunk, forcing growth on the lower buds. Plenty of small twigs at the bottom with buds on. The theory here is that the roots are perhaps struggling to keep up with the tree, and resulting in nothing happening. This would correct that imbalance.

For those interested, this is a tree from this thread, which has recorded its life thus far.

Ugly Ducklings - Suggestions, advice please

 

Forsoothe!

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Several of mine are slow this spring, too. Go slow and wait them out. Watch for growth low and in the interior.
 

Mikecheck123

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If it's green everywhere and has buds, it'll wake up.

The only question is if you want to remove some of the top due to that massive root disturbance to restore balance.

I would do that. Downward spirals can start with a tree gets massively out of balance between water needs and water collection.

You didn't cut anything, right? So right now you're asking all ten feet to deal with 20% of the roots that they're used to. Since it's a CE, it'll probably be ok. But I'd worry if the tree leafs out and there's a sudden June heatwave.
 

ConorDash

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If the health of the tree is in question, I'd leave it alone and wait for it to start growing. Chopping at this point won't force it to start growing and may set it back further. If it's going to grow, it will ...

Well the health isn’t, really. Far as I know it’s very healthy. I didn’t remove much root, I dug up as much as I could. Naturally it’ll have lost some but I don’t think a lot.
It’s about the balance between root and foliage, which is why I think chopping would be an idea. At the moment it’s not going to harm it, to cut. Don’t you think?


Several of mine are slow this spring, too. Go slow and wait them out. Watch for growth low and in the interior.
Thanks. Have you any trees yet to leaf out?


If it's green everywhere and has buds, it'll wake up.

The only question is if you want to remove some of the top due to that massive root disturbance to restore balance.

I would do that. Downward spirals can start with a tree gets massively out of balance between water needs and water collection.

You didn't cut anything, right? So right now you're asking all ten feet to deal with 20% of the roots that they're used to. Since it's a CE, it'll probably be ok. But I'd worry if the tree leafs out and there's a sudden June heatwave.
That’s the key.. the balance. I didn’t remove much root, naturally some will have been lost but should be more like it has 70-80% of its root mass remaining. I cut a few feet of branches off the top, that’s all.
But yeh, your thoughts are exactly mine.

My theory is that it can’t harm Otto cut back now, it can only be a positive. Don’t you think?
 

Dav4

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At the moment it’s not going to harm it, to cut. Don’t you think
Well, sure it will. You're cutting away a portion of trunk... that's a big net negative energy wise... and you're likely to damage any new roots that may be growing at the moment. I would have chopped it when it was dug a few months ago. Fiddling around with it now only weakens it further.
 

leatherback

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Do not fiddle with it.

Cutting it back will put pressure on the roots.
And.. If you cut back you will loose what there already is in terms of buds.

My vote is for patience. Patients?
 

ConorDash

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Well, sure it will. You're cutting away a portion of trunk... that's a big net negative energy wise... and you're likely to damage any new roots that may be growing at the moment. I would have chopped it when it was dug a few months ago. Fiddling around with it now only weakens it further.
I get your point but also remember it means less foliage and branching for the roots to sustain, which is a positive. The tree should have bundles of energy. It shouldnt be weak.

Do not fiddle with it.

Cutting it back will put pressure on the roots.
And.. If you cut back you will loose what there already is in terms of buds.

My vote is for patience. Patients?
Why do you say cutting back will put pressure on roots? I don't disagree, just curious why you think it.

I am the patient, that requires patience. If that helps your grammar question :p.
Also congrats, you have EXACTLY 10,000 messages.
1621797268896.png
 

Mikecheck123

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that's a big net negative energy wise
I don't get your math. You're removing "energy", whatever that may be, but also the stuff that needs the energy (leaf buds). So that's neutral.

A more useful metaphor for me is a tall fountain. It takes more "water pressure" to reach the top of a ten foot fountain than a five foot fountain. (And this is why trees in nature die--they get too tall to keep the cycle going and the downward spiral begins.)
 

sorce

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There is only merit to the "balance" notion at the very same time as the root removal.

After that, there is no way to tell how far into "cross-talk" the tree has become. No way to tell what decisions it has made for itself.

The problem with removing anything now, is you may be removing all of the parts it has already decided are in the best positions, ie; the more vigorous apex, to continue it's life.

It has everything to do with "cross-talk" and nothing to do with energy.

Sorce
 

Dav4

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I get your point but also remember it means less foliage and branching for the roots to sustain, which is a positive. The tree should have bundles of energy. It shouldnt be weak.


Why do you say cutting back will put pressure on roots? I don't disagree, just curious why you think it.

I am the patient, that requires patience. If that helps your grammar question :p.
Also congrats, you have EXACTLY 10,000 messages.
View attachment 376585
I don't get your math. You're removing "energy", whatever that may be, but also the stuff that needs the energy (leaf buds). So that's neutral.

A more useful metaphor for me is a tall fountain. It takes more "water pressure" to reach the top of a ten foot fountain than a five foot fountain. (And this is why trees in nature die--they get too tall to keep the cycle going and the downward spiral begins.)
Perhaps, I misunderstood the theme of this thread- a recently collected tree not waking up in a timely matter- and assumed it was about the health of the tree as opposed to rationalizing a reason to chop the trunk now... Anyway, there's loads of carbs stored in the trunk and buds already that facilitate the initial bud break and push. Assuming the roots weren't severely reduced, as the OP has stated, there shouldn't be an issue in the tree's ability supporting the new foliage and possible fueling a longer and more substantial spring growth period. More buds equals more leaves. More leaves equals more food to rebuild what was damaged at collection. More trunk/branch cutting/chopping/wiring etc., before a tree has recovered collection can absolutely set it back, as even the slightest trunk manipulation can damage newly grown feeder roots. Again, the chop should have been done at collection or after the tree has obviously recovered... good luck... tapping out!!
 

Forsoothe!

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I have 1 of 3 Beech and half my English Oaks late. The Elms all have growth close to the the centers. I have more winter-kill this year than most, and this was a very mild winter with very little snow. I prefer snow cover for as long as possible, like Dec. 1st to Mar 31st.
 

PA_Penjing

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If your other elm just woke up 2 days ago in a pot where the roots were warmed up by the sun then I don’t know why this one wouldn’t wake up in a week or two when the ground warms up. You described a live tree that’s ready to pop and you mentioned that you took away some of it’s root power. Just be patient, sounds like it’s doing exactly what is expected in Your yard
 

leatherback

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Why do you say cutting back will put pressure on roots? I don't disagree, just curious why you think it.
How do you cut back?

When I cut, even with large secateurs, I find there is some twisting and moving. This movement means the roots move around in the soil. When young roots are forming this could spell trouble. If you use a saw that is even worse
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I would just leave it and wait.

I dug up a 10 year old American persimmon from the farm before the buds began to move. Today, may 24, a full 3 weeks after everything else around the house, including seedling persimmons, had leafed out. The buds of this newly transplanted persimmon have just started to move, green is peaking out through the bud scales. Still probably a week or two before leaves unfurl.

Transplant shock can really delay leafing out by many weeks.
 

Forsoothe!

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I would just leave it and wait.

I dug up a 10 year old American persimmon from the farm before the buds began to move. Today, may 24, a full 3 weeks after everything else around the house, including seedling persimmons, had leafed out. The buds of this newly transplanted persimmon have just started to move, green is peaking out through the bud scales. Still probably a week or two before leaves unfurl.

Transplant shock can really delay leafing out by many weeks.
It's not unreasonable to assume that the first efforts of the plant is to re-establish the functions of the roots at the expense of all other functions, and when some minimum level of utility is reached other functions will be resumed. Wait.
 

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