Chojubai trees coming from Japan on ebay??

Cadillactaste

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Unbelievable. Makes me upset how ridiculous us Americans are when it comes to pricing Bonsai.

Google says that this tree is only about $28 USD? If so that’s insane. It would go for ten times that here if not more.
Price and demand...anything brought into the states...one has paid to quarantine it for two years. Thus the up charge.

I don't feel bonsai should be cheaper than landscape material either. Thus I don't have an issue with paying what I do.
 

rockm

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This is a scam unless the seller can prove the tree was quarantined in Japan before shipping.

If you pay your money and the seller ships the tree without quarantine you're rolling the dice.

Customs and Border Protection or USDA could stop it and destroy it at the port of entry. OR it makes it through in a big box undetected at that port, which is later tracked to your home by CBP. Officers show up and ask you about contraband. They're nice and all, but you and your new tree might be screwed if they decide to pursue smuggling charges--and that's pretty much what you're doing.

If you get lucky and start illegally shipping this stuff repeatedly, I'd bet you'd be prosecuted.

Bottom line, there are VERY good reasons for quarantining bonsai imports. They are proven vectors of pests and diseases. Asian Longhorn beetles hitched a ride into the NW U.S. in a shipment of maple bonsai from Korea back in the early 2000's. That stock (worth thousands to the nursery buyer in the US--John Muth at Bonsai Northwest) had to be destroyed, but not without collateral damage to the trees around the location. The dangers of new pathogens from imported trees and plants to U.S. agriculture is very real and potentially devastating in some cases.

I understand the frustration with not being able to directly import trees from Japan. There are some great deals there on spectacular trees. I am also wary of people who call those restrictions needless or "just Washington getting up in our business." Those complaints are mostly excuses for being selfish. Could it be easier to import? Yeah. Are some of the restrictions oppressive? Yeah, sure they are. But pouting like a 4 year old who's been denied his right to expensive ice cream sundaes is silly. Not saying that's the case here, but I've seen that pouting repeatedly over the years--and know that some have illegally imported mame and shohin in their luggage...
 

rockm

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The fine print is at the bottom. I don't believe this is meant for the US market...
"Please allow additional time if international delivery is subject to customs processing."

Yeah, that is quite an understatement. The "additional time" for "customs processing" into the U.S. is two years, barerooting and fumigation when the tree gets here. And also FWIW, $200 for that little thing is not a great deal. Anyone thinking about importing this stuff can do better with domestic stock--yeah its hard to find. Quit whining and find it....it's out there.
 

Smoke

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Honestly...isn't bringing in a tree that was unquarentined also...a risk to ones own collection? It's just not worth it. No mater if one has cajoles or not. Lol[/QUOT
 

Smoke

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You seriously are working on your numbers Al... You quoted me and forgot to respond. Lol
Actually I changed my mind cause I didn't think it was worth the effort:(.....that maturity thing.......
 

Smoke

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Say it isn't soooo. Al is growing up.

Lets just say this .......I been doing bonsai for 34 years. I've seen lots of things in bonsai change as far as importing. I live in California, a real mecca for bonsai culture. Also a mecca for bonsai material at still very reasonable prices. LOTS of it comes here from China and Japan, even in a very small bonsai nursery here in Fresno. Now without wishing to debate the whole forum I KNOW where this stuff comes from and I know what it's been thru. The stuff under 12 inches as far as I know still comes in legally unquarantined and the larger stuff, coming in the same shipment comes with proper papers and has been quarantined outside of the country. I have no reason to lie. What do I gain?

Just saying....
 

Cadillactaste

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Lets just say this .......I been doing bonsai for 34 years. I've seen lots of things in bonsai change as far as importing. I live in California, a real mecca for bonsai culture. Also a mecca for bonsai material at still very reasonable prices. LOTS of it comes here from China and Japan, even in a very small bonsai nursery here in Fresno. Now without wishing to debate the whole forum I KNOW where this stuff comes from and I know what it's been thru. The stuff under 12 inches as far as I know still comes in legally unquarantined and the larger stuff, coming in the same shipment comes with proper papers and has been quarantined outside of the country. I have no reason to lie. What do I gain?

Just saying....
Not calling you a liar Al...but, from the photos I seen Matt Smith share...theirs all come in bareroot. I also know what I dealt with trying to get into the states a bougainvillea from Honduras. I almost wonder...if ones turn a blind eye to the smaller stuff with who they are getting their trees from...and don't beat me...at what cost to not have them see the smaller ones come under the same guidelines. Whose pockets if any are being lined.
 

rockm

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Lets just say this .......I been doing bonsai for 34 years. I've seen lots of things in bonsai change as far as importing. I live in California, a real mecca for bonsai culture. Also a mecca for bonsai material at still very reasonable prices. LOTS of it comes here from China and Japan, even in a very small bonsai nursery here in Fresno. Now without wishing to debate the whole forum I KNOW where this stuff comes from and I know what it's been thru. The stuff under 12 inches as far as I know still comes in legally unquarantined and the larger stuff, coming in the same shipment comes with proper papers and has been quarantined outside of the country. I have no reason to lie. What do I gain?

Just saying....


The import laws are arcane, but this is in an article on APHIS' website on how they imported the National Arb bonsai collection--Controlled Import Permit (CIP) might be what they're doing:
A More Systematic Approach to Determining Pest Risk
In 2011, PPQ [plant protection and quarantine] improved its process for keeping out plants whose pest risk is high or not known. The improved process also facilitates the import of those plants that are known to present little or easily managed risks. Through this process, called “Not Authorized Pending Pest Risk Analysis” or NAPPRA, PPQ experts review scientific literature and examine plant import histories to systematically determine the risk presented by various plant species. If little is known about a particular species, it is placed on the NAPPRA list and prohibited entry into the United States until an importer requests a pest risk analysis.

Recognizing that researchers and others might need to import prohibited plant species for experimental, therapeutic, or developmental purposes, PPQ created the controlled import permit (CIP). This permit authorizes the holder to import small quantities of otherwise prohibited plants under stringent conditions designed to protect U.S. crops and ecosystems. Through the NAPPRA and CIP processes, PPQ is strengthening the United States safeguarding system while facilitating the safe trade of plants and plant products.
 
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I Sent a message of interest to the seller in Japan and this is what he replied.

"Hello. Thanks for the message.

I am glad that you are interested in this item.
However, I am sorry.
If this product is shipped to the USA it takes quite a lot of time in relation to quarantine.

I also sell replica bonsai so we recommend purchasing replica bonsai.
Please visit my sales page."

Thank you.

Turns out it was only a replica.
 

KeithE

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Unfortunately there is no free pass for short trees. That would be awesome though. Maybe there is a customs crew with a soft spot for shohin.
 
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