Chop ID - Two Pots, Same Chop?

TN_Jim

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This red pot I purchased this spring at the Nashville Lawn & Garden show from a Georgia based bonsai vendor. He said he brought the pot from Taiwan a long time back. I did not even see that it had a chop on it due to it being so light -thanks again @cheap_walmart_art for spotting this.

Yesterday I got this second pot and noticed the similarities in the red one having gone down a google/chop wormhole prior.

They look pretty close to me. Also, the form detail and lightly dappled clay used have the same appearance.

I don’t imagine these are anything too special, but it would be nice to know their origin.

Thanks for any thoughts.
1BD044F5-5B33-424E-B273-40573D3DF49E.jpeg789BA413-909E-49AE-A0F5-FBF20C8A0786.jpeg
3A2C1886-BA6E-4ABD-A36B-E290C26E0AD8.jpeg94A9D68A-1C58-4351-B232-F14809104BB1.jpeg095DD844-1F9C-4FF4-8E5B-697EEF2BC088.jpeg64B76E5F-2152-4038-8B16-1B9ED9C21D90.jpeg
 
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If you can make it to the NBS picnic or next club meeting you could have @Owen Reich take a look at them, he'd be the best source I know locally who might could tell you more.
 

TN_Jim

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If you can make it to the NBS picnic or next club meeting you could have @Owen Reich take a look at them, he'd be the best source I know locally who might could tell you more.
Man I forgot to switch my work days for the picnic like a complete dunce. I even had a note to in the office. That’s a big one to miss. If I ever make it to another NBS function the earth may open up and swallow me whole. I am shooting for the next meeting though.
@Owen Reich help is a good idea. Thanks homie
 

Smoke

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These are mid grade Chinese pots. They are brought into the USA thru Royola Pacific. They are inexpensive for the finish and look really well. The chops are terrible and yours are no different, much of it can't even be seen. It's not that important as these are designed to be good training pots. Even if someone could give you a name, you wouldn't know it as it's no one famous.

 
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These are mid grade Chinese pots. They are brought into the USA thru Royola Pacific. They are inexpensive for the finish and look really well. The chops are terrible and yours are no different, much of it can't even be seen. It's not that important as these are designed to be good training pots. Even if someone could give you a name, you wouldn't know it as it's no one famous.

Man, I like seeing a concise answer paired up with a reference! Thanks for chiming in on this one.
 

Smoke

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Man, I like seeing a concise answer paired up with a reference! Thanks for chiming in on this one.
Many of the trees in all three collections in California are in Royola pots. They look good and cost a third of what a Japanese pot would cost. In most cases you can't distinguish it from it's Japanese counterpart. When they donate plants to the collections, they take them out of expensive Japanese pots and put them into Cheaper Chinese pots. In many cases the previous pots are probably worth more than the tree.

Here is some photo's of trees in a collection in Royola pots.

DSC_00840021.JPGDSC_00940031.JPGDSC_01410078.JPG
 

TN_Jim

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Fantastic! @Smoke, thanks much for the link, images, and intel. Very interesting.

Did an image search for “Royola Pacific bonsai pot chop” and got not a single image of a chop -the only thing I recognized from the entire image search was these jokers
6B15DEC1-FCD1-4252-AAEC-FA36B3FA73D1.jpeg
 

Smoke

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No one cares about chops on inexpensive Chinese pots. Ryan has a Chinese resource at his site, maybe it's there. Your chops are not very good so I don't think even if you had a resource that it was in, you could match it. There is just too much missing. Every line and squiggle means something and one squiggle can mean a whole different family.

 

TN_Jim

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No one cares about chops on inexpensive Chinese pots. Ryan has a Chinese resource at his site, maybe it's there. Your chops are not very good so I don't think even if you had a resource that it was in, you could match it. There is just too much missing. Every line and squiggle means something and one squiggle can mean a whole different family.

This website is an amazing resource. I went through literally every image looking for this (these?) chop and found some similar, but none really even close -even for how vague/weakly imprinted they are.

Everything you are saying is ringing very true in this regard -begging the question, who the hell are these mystery potters cranking out these unknown workhorses...fascinating even if beyond obscure.

This somehow reminds me of back when I attempted to quit smoking by rolling my own cigarettes, and just ended up liking the act of, and also began smoking more quality tobacco...slippery slope indeed.
Thanks
 

Smoke

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First, Thanks for actually saying thanks.

Second, this is gonna require a lot of typing.

Chinese culture, not to be confused with Japanese culture, which is very recent, but it's origins are very old. The Early Japanese migrated from Africa about 100,000 years ago and were called Negrito's. They lived in caves. It was not until about 300BC that the Chinese began going to Japan and exchange ideas. The Japanese had no culture to call their own and took everything from the Chinese even the Chinese language early on.
The history of pot making is well regarded around the world in China. Moving to today, The Japanese ever the user of mimicry, (my nice work for stealing everything from the Chinese) began making pottery around the twelfth century in and around Tokonoma Japan due to it's vast clay deposits. The area to us is renowned for bonsai pots but in Japan is king of the toilet, which is what Tokanoma makes the most of.

China has always had a huge amount of investment is innovation, and stealing intellectual property from around the world. It did not take long for the Chinese to begin to makes molds for increased production but also large machines called plug molders that can stamp out twelve pots a minute.

Pot making continued in Japan but much of the work was done by hand and still is to a large extant and some still use molds to press the clay into.

Thats the basics, and all of most affordable pots out of China are machine molded and fired on huge production lines. That is how they keep the cost down and contribute to the National Industry. Also, you will notice that these pots from China tend to be on the larger side, usually larger than 16 inches or more. Anyone that has bought a large pot from Japan knows the pain that can be, 500.00 to 1000.00 dollars easy. You can get 24 inch Royola pots that are very nice looking and large in the 60.00 to 100.00 range. quite a savings.

Here is a large Royola pot on the side of my yard collecting dust. about 26 inches across. I think I paid about 85.00 for it.

DSC_0007.JPG

It has a very smooth finish and has no flaws, just a good functional pot. Just not made by Tofukuji. So 85.00 bucks.
 
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Smoke

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Just imagine that sweet young Chinese girl, standing in a hot factory with some aluminum chop stick pressing into the wet clay not caring about being precise and a yawn on her face. Thats what I see.......
 

Smoke

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Also notice how in Ryan Bell's great resource the Japanese pots have much better photo to name recognition rather than a lot of Chinese photo's just say Chinese-Contemporary.

Think about the Declaration of Independance. As a kid and study of the document, everyone knows who John Hancock is. It is prominent and he wrote it where you could read it. Many of the others are in obscurity. Many of the Chinese chops too are in obscurity. Unless some historian on Chinese pots comes fourth and gives all the names to Ryan, it will stay the way it is. Chinese-Contemporary. I have lots of those.
 

LanceMac10

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Looks like Lancemac, Sergio and Smoke are pretty important users of Royola pots!!!


Two there a definitely "Royola"....one is more "Crayola"! 😁 😁 😁 😁 😁

Sesame Streets "which one is not like the others" comes to mind!;) 😄 😄 😄
 

Smoke

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The above should read Tokoname. I'm used to writing about displayso_Oo_Oo_O

When I read that again, I said, what a newb....
 

MrWunderful

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I need to get some of those Royolas, do they sell them locally in the bay area? I see they are in Hayward, but looks like wholesale only.
 

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