Considering Compost Tea for bonsai

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Shohin
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Currently using dyna-gro for bonsai with their pro-tekt but thinking it would be nice to go natural for my trees does anybody have any experience using compost tea or can suggest a brand they have used any ideas would help. I was just wandering.
 

Deep Sea Diver

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Ok,
Personally I’d switch to something other than dyna grow with a lower solvable P value to help build up your rhizosphere critters. 7-9-5 seems a bit out of range for normal operations.

Maybe use a slow release or Bonsai blocks coupled with fish emulsion?

Here’s an article on compost tea FYI
https://www.gardenmyths.com/compost-tea-npk-values/.

Not sure how effective it would be except as a supplement with your regular fertilizer.

Cheers
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fredman

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I tried that last year but won't bother again. There's just to many variables when it comes to a small bonsai pot. Compost tea for me, is best used in the garden.
Bio gold I hear is a very good natural fertilizer. To expensive for me. I'm trying my own homemade concoctions this year....got high hopes on that too.
Also alternating with a good quality fish fertilizer or emulsion.
 

Firstflush

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Try your own. Get a fish pump and a bag of compost. Shovel scoop in a bucket with water and let the pump go for 24 hrs. Some people at molasses to the bucket to feed the bugs.

Many folks just soak compost for a period w/o a pump blowing oxygen into the bucket.

Also, Malibu Compost pre made tea bags are good. Not cheap.

At work we had one of those high end tower gardens. You can add worms to the tower soil (we didn’t). The water would leach the soil and fill the bottom reservoir. One crafty coworker would grab the tea leachate and add to his display garden. The results were remarkable and very substantial.
 

Deep Sea Diver

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I tried that last year but won't bother again. There's just to many variables when it comes to a small bonsai pot. Compost tea for me, is best used in the garden.
Bio gold I hear is a very good natural fertilizer. To expensive for me. I'm trying my own homemade concoctions this year....got high hopes on that too.
Also alternating with a good quality fish fertilizer or emulsion.
Interesting @fredman! Got a fish tank at home?
If so, when you siphon change the water you could save it and put it on your bonsai.
Bet that's cheaper and way better for your bonsai than any old compost tea! ;)
Cheers
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Firstflush

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“Any old compost tea”....how dare you, that really hurts! It’s the shizzzzzzz.
Low numbers, pretty sure all under 1. Really gets the microbial activity up.
 

Firstflush

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The pro stuff does like Malibu Compost tea bags...
Lots of folks just do the shovel a scoop of post and bucket of water method. Stir everyday.
The fish tank pump supposedly gets the bugs really pumping.

In all honesty, if I was going to hassle regularly with it, I would do earthworm casting tea first....or buy it.
 

Deep Sea Diver

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You are 100% correct, an aquarium pump would do well in getting microbes multiplying.

Actually, you could put in any decent supply of organics into water and pump more O2 into the mix and some microbes would multiply.
That's how wastewater treatment plants do it in second stage treatment. The microbes then chow down on the waste in the waste water. Yum!

However, this real issue is which microbes? Are these the microbes that would normally be in the soil rhizosphere, or some other microbes that operate better in a high O2 aqueous environment?

...and btw, would adding more microbes to your rhizosphere do any good if you had good soil.... or if you used a soluable phosphate fertilizer and inactivated some of these lil critters?
That's the issue with the "get them bugs going"situations.

Cheers
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fredman

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Compost tea isn't as simple as it sounds. It's one of those things that needs to be done right...you first need to know what compost you have...bacterial or fungal dominated. Then you need to know what microbes are already in your soil and what is not...a soil test will verify.
To actually make the tea is another story. Most teas are merely brown water, compost extract...or leachates at best...very little microbial life....anaerobic soup. The fungi and bacteria are attached to the organic matter with biological glues/slime..they don't simply wash off.
When done right by using good homemade compost or vermicastings, a big aquarium pump and stone for the bubbling process, it takes 24-36hrs to develop a good tea. It starts deteriorating as soon as it's made. There is many microbes and they're rapidly consuming the available nutrients. When that is up, they start eating each other....and using up the oxygen. The shelf life is short. Best to use freshly made compost tea within about 4 hrs. If kept refrigerated or you keep blowing bubbles through it, it can last for up to 5 days...all the while the populations will be diminishing.
Then, when they do end up in the pot it's anybody's guess how long they last...temperature, moisture fluctuations and available nutrients.
 

Anthony

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Compost Tea - NPK - 1.1.1
Feeds what?

Compost tea as an insecticide / fungicide - possibly

NPK - 8-6 N 1-2 P 1-2 K [ fermented oil seed cake ]
for trees in branchlet refinement.

NPK 0ver 8 ............. is for ground growing, trunk thickening.
Good Day
Anthony
 

Clicio

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Very interesting.
By coincidence I am just testing a tea compost today.
Let's see the results.
20200829_112028.jpg
 

coh

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I have never used compost tea and have no plans to try it. Ryan Neil tried it last summer on a bunch of his trees and did not have good results. He has a couple of podcasts devoted to the topic that I suggest you listen to. One or two were from before he applied the compost tea, and one was within the past few weeks where they discussed what happened.
 

Clicio

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... compost tea, and one was within the past few weeks where they discussed what happened.
Could you please post a summary of the conclusion here, just in case we don't have the time to watch the podcasts? Thanks!
 

johnd

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I haven't listened to all of them but the general overview is that Ryan worked with some organic soil consultants who were having excellent results pretty much across the board. They did an analysis of the soil in his pots and came up with a regime which included compost teas.

The health of his trees went downhill quickly - particularly in the trees with the finest roots. It sounds like there was quite noticeable and significant damage. The takeaway from the past two podcasts (post failed experiment) is that soil in bonsai pots has a very different set of characteristics and that dumping a huge amount of bacteria (which compost tea contains) into that environment is a risky proposition. One suggestion was that in the bonsai environment the bacteria may have gone crazy and consumed all the available carbon which had a range of impacts including causing the pH to drop massively.

The guy in the latest podcast manages aquacultural systems as a job and does bonsai as a hobby. He was critical of the approach the consultant had suggested and instead suggests that worm castings are used as an organic compost/soil addition. In his job he's responsible for managing a complex bacterial/chemical environment and he made a good case that worm castings are much more stable and less risky than other organic biological ameliorants.

The podcasts are incredibly interesting and I'm thrilled to see this level of conversation going on in bonsai. I've had a fair amount to do with organic and conventional horticulture and I've been trying to wrap my head around what does and doesn't apply to the bonsai pot. These podcasts have been really useful in this.

Edit - I was half listening to the podcast while working around the house so I may have gotten some details wrong.
The podcasts are available here:
 
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johnd

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That said, I have seen compost teas applied really successfully by bonsai practitioners. My gut feeling is that there is a possibility of developing a robust soil ecosystem which is able to buffer/moderate the impact of the compost tea so that the beneficial impacts of the tea occur.

My gut feeling is that the solid akadama and other practices used by Ryan mean that his results differ from some of the other circumstances where I have seen compost teas used successfully.

I think that anyone who is playing around in this area should experiment carefully. Part of the problem at Mirai was that they went all in and applied new approaches across the board. Personally I'm going to go and get a worm farm set up - I'm too broke to buy good organic fertilisers and vermicast is something I'm very familiar with from organic gardening.
 

coh

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I think that anyone who is playing around in this area should experiment carefully. Part of the problem at Mirai was that they went all in and applied new approaches across the board. Personally I'm going to go and get a worm farm set up - I'm too broke to buy good organic fertilisers and vermicast is something I'm very familiar with from organic gardening.

I have to admit I was shocked when I saw that he was applying that stuff to almost his entire collection. One of the things he said in the follow-up was that he got cocky or too self-confident and that he should have tested it on a smaller group of trees.

Could you please post a summary of the conclusion here, just in case we don't have the time to watch the podcasts? Thanks!

I don't recall all the details, but Ryan thinks he threw off the entire microbial balance in the containers. They think the tea caused too much bacterial growth (compared to desirable fungi) and the trees suffered. I'd have to listen to the podcast again as that's about as much as I remember. Maybe someone else has listened more recently and can fill in the gaps in my memory.
 

Clicio

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did you make it? If so, how did you go about it?
I happen to live now in a condo that has a communitarian composter. First floor the organics, second floor the compost and earth worms, lower floor the tea. It was here before I came to live here, and I am allowed to take as much as I need if I live something behind in exchange, so today I sowed 40 tamarillo seeds in the communitarian vegetable garden.
But answering your question the mechanics are pretty simple, three plastic containers stacked one on top of the other; the lower one has a faucet.
 

PA_Penjing

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trees need large amounts of beneficial fungi in their soil to a very low amount of beneficial bacteria. They help fight against the bad bacteria and fungi, just like in and on our bodies. When the bacteria surges and fungi plummets problems start fast. "Still" compost tea in an anaerobic nightmare of negative bacteria, some people aerate if with fish pumps or bubblers trying to keep more aerobic bacteria alive which is supposed to be better but I can't imagine it's great for a TREE. and that's the important part. Annuals and short lived perenials can inhabit areas with F'd up bacteria to fungi levels since they are living fast and dying young to pave the way for plants higher up the trophic levels. There are 15,000,000,000 factors involved but that is the fastest way I can describe why I wouldn't use the tea.

That being said, if you want to go organic I highly recommend Neptune's harvest seaweed and fish fertilizer. The numbers are low and the fish is a hydrolysate (cold pressed) versus other cheap fish ferts that are anaerobic bacteria ridden emulsions. Plus! the seaweed in it is actually kelp which is supposed to combat apical dominance and create back budding and lateral growth when applied topically to trees
 
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