"Cosmic" style bonsai -- Thoughts?

[rockm]

This... doesn't really give any good results at all. In @cishepard's thread on Cosmic Bonsai, you called it repackaged octopus style and then linked to Tony Tickle's review which didn't discuss octopus style or takozukuri at all

Google also doesn't really have good results. This BCI page isn't descriptive of the style, and links to this tree profile, which doesn't discuss styling. Bonsaigers describes it as "when long thick branches starts from a short main trunk", i.e. oak style. Bonsai Society of Greater Cincinatti gets the closest to what you describe. The other search results of "octopus style bonsai" I saw are using octopus as description instead of nomenclature. Look through older books that have illustrations of Meiji-era bonsai is not helpful to understanding more about this. Got any better links or images that you can show us?

Uh, you want me to do your research, spoonfeed you images from culling through 200 or 300 bonsai books in my collection, sorry ain't gonna happen The best I can do is point you to photos of the original hinoki cypresses at the Arnold Arboretum's Larz Anderson collection. Those cypress were imported in the early years of the 20th century. They were 150-250 years old at the time. They were pretty close to the Takozukuri style. They have been redesigned and rehabilitated over the years, but the original design is still part of them.

look, it is (or was) an established style back 150-100 years ago, likely Chinese in origins. It was abandon as bonsai turned more naturalistic in style around the early 1900's when bonsai was being criticized by westerners (and some Japanese) as 'unnatural' and that trees looked tortured. That conclusion is understandable as Kozomiku or takokazuri style trees. Don't believe me, then don't believe me. Believe some guy developed his own style after 500 years of bonsai history. There's nothing really new under the sun. The Cosmic bonsai stuff is not really original, as much as it is re-purposed, either consciously or subconsciously. There's nothing wrong with that, but there is something wrong with saying it is your idea.

 

[rockm]

Here's a pic in Yuji Yoshimura's. The Japanese art of miniature landscapes and trees,published in 1957

The image isn't the greatest and the pine's needles obscure the interior twisting branching, but if you look carefully, the dropped small branch on the lower right side shows what's going on underneath the foliage.

 

[Wood]

Uh, you want me to do your research, spoonfeed you images from culling through 200 or 300 bonsai books in my collection, sorry ain't gonna happen

That's not really what I was asking. I was asking you to back up your "Same different century git gud noob" dismissal with something other than "go read through rare-out-of-print collector's books"

I see the similarities in these and Darrieux's trees, but it seems they have just as many differences. To each their own. I think it's a refreshing rejection and challenging of typical bonsai aesthetics.

 

[cishepard]

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[ShadyStump]

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See, I knew she would appreciate us taking it outside her progression thread.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Tea and coffee are both hot beverages of caffeine.

That's how I feel when ones try to say the Cosmic design is the same as years gone by. Apples and oranges. Yet totally not the same at all.

Artistically scarring deciduous trees...THAT IS COSMIC!

Images pulled from Hervé Dora 's Facebook wall.

 

[littletreefarmer]

Important to note, I think, is that Laurent also stresses the great importance he places on scarifying the trunks and primary branches. He "scarifies everything". The pruning and wiring makes interesting branching, but the real magic, in my opinion, is how he is handling the trunks.

Artistically scarring deciduous trees...THAT IS COSMIC!

 

[littletreefarmer]

Coming back to this, I also think it is important to separate Laurent's trees from his displays sometimes.

I was able to see his display from this past Trophy exhibition, and while I think his trees are very artistic and his displays are very powerful and thought-provoking, he is maybe a little too heavy-handed. I agree with his political or cultural commentary most of the time, but he also hits you over the head with his messaging and doesn't leave much subtlety for the viewer to unpack for themselves. Having a "corpse" hanging from his tree with robots protesting humanity and hailing AI is quite a stark image to see, but very gaudy at the same time. Like with most art, the message is much more important when the viewer finds it for themselves.

Maybe not the best thread for this conversation, but I wasn't sure if it warranted a new thread either.