Crab Apple - Next Steps

Clblay

Seedling
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Hey guys, appreciate the help on another thread I submitted about my Pyracantha. I'm going to use some of those suggestions once it finally warms up here in Southern Oregon. I will update that thread with pics once I begin the work to hopefully assist others in the future.

I purchased this crab apple from Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks. I would like to get this into an Anderson Flat for trunk thickening. I do not have the option to plant in ground. My wife told me enough trees in the ground at this time until I can create my own section of yard for trunk growing. I plan to root prune and place in the flat with easily draining soil components. A couple questions:

1.) Two trunks --- this was unexpected. Should I go twin trunk on this or try to isolate one trunk?

2.) In image 2, notice the growth coming from the bottom of the trunk. Do you typically trim this off or let remain if my goal is to thicken the trunks?

3.) I've yet to find a definitive answer searching through the forums on this topic --- for trees that flower and produce fruit/berries, if my goal is trunk thickening is it best to pinch off those blooms when I see them to divert the energy to growth of the tree? I have a cotoneaster in the ground and those blooms are tiny and plentiful.....will be a pain to pinch all of them off.


Thanks!
 

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W3rk

Shohin
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Yeah you've got a bunch of new suckers coming up at the base there. Those are not as likely to help, but I'd get other opinions. Regarding the flowers/fruit - I would definitely nip those early as they can take a lot of energy from the growth of your trunk and branches.
 

Gsquared

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I'd trim them. Rub the buds off before they get woody. Branches thicken the trunk below, but the suckers would probably only cause swelling that might not be attractive.
 

Soldano666

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Identify flower buds now and knock them off. But the time they are flower buds the tree has already expelled the energy. Flower buds will swell before the leaf buds get juicy. Right now is a good tome for me in zone 5, actually I did it last week.
 

Tele

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2. I believe a sacrificial branch needs to be above the part of the trunk you want to thicken.
maybe it helps develop the root base?
 

erb.75

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Hey guys, appreciate the help on another thread I submitted about my Pyracantha. I'm going to use some of those suggestions once it finally warms up here in Southern Oregon. I will update that thread with pics once I begin the work to hopefully assist others in the future.

I purchased this crab apple from Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks. I would like to get this into an Anderson Flat for trunk thickening. I do not have the option to plant in ground. My wife told me enough trees in the ground at this time until I can create my own section of yard for trunk growing. I plan to root prune and place in the flat with easily draining soil components. A couple questions:

1.) Two trunks --- this was unexpected. Should I go twin trunk on this or try to isolate one trunk?

2.) In image 2, notice the growth coming from the bottom of the trunk. Do you typically trim this off or let remain if my goal is to thicken the trunks?

3.) I've yet to find a definitive answer searching through the forums on this topic --- for trees that flower and produce fruit/berries, if my goal is trunk thickening is it best to pinch off those blooms when I see them to divert the energy to growth of the tree? I have a cotoneaster in the ground and those blooms are tiny and plentiful.....will be a pain to pinch all of them off.


Thanks!
what kind is that? I was thinking about ordering some from him too!
 

discusmike

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You need to dig down yo the nebari and see what the base of the tree looks like,the way i see it in the pic the upright trunk is smaller then the lower angled trunk,i would look at the base n decide what route to take,either way you have many years of development to get something nice,and its not easy to get taper in crabs,yes remove the suckers
 

Clblay

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what kind is that? I was thinking about ordering some from him too!
Malus 'Profusion' 12 feet tall and upright. Purple foliage changing to bronzy green. Red purple flowers with a white center. Small bright red fruit. Cuttings.
 

Cadillactaste

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I think turning this tree so the "v" space between the trunks look less wide might offer a better possible look. Bringing that slanted branch forward some...rotate clockwise so it points over say...your right shoulder not straight at you. Curious what that would look like.
 

Cadillactaste

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I would also like to see all sides...remembering one wants the tree to come towards the viewer not away.
 

Cadillactaste

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Agreeing with recommendation of removal of the suckers. Would love to see all angles of your tree though.
 

shinmai

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Amazing to see it leaf out in just four days. How tall is it? I have a ‘snowdrift’ arriving from Brent today. I got a pyracantha and a flowering apricot from him last week, both are wonderful trees.
Just a thought...much of your future styling decisions will be a function of the angle at which you set it when you repot into a grow box [degrees from vertical for both trunks in all directions]—in essence, it redefines how the tree defines up and down, and changes the future growth habit accordingly. You might want to play with shimming the nursery pot to tilt it and get an idea of how you want to direct the growth while you’re growing out the trunk, and then plop it into the grow box at that angle.
Best of luck—it’s gorgeous, and looks like it has loads of potential. Now I’m all excited about the arrival of mine!
 

sorce

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I would like to remind EVERYONE about what Ryan Neil says about asking ourselves WHY...we should do Something.

Lotta half truths and run around here.

Not trying to be a dick....

Here's what I get out of this thread up to this point.

So we hear "developing trunks" and that's generally a good idea....so we roll with it...

But develop trunks why?

And if you are developing trunks why cut roots?
When your trunk is ready you can layer a nice spread of roots with no worry of them being out of proportion. Yes we are adding years to grow out roots and bark them up. This needs to be balanced against the time it will take to develop the trunks if the roots are cut back.
(Hard to follow when we speak with it depends in place huh?)

For me the time is equal enough (+-5yrs) to take the more aesthetically pleasing route of developing your own Nebari and surface roots which will be in proportion with the tree.

But there we dig down and the base is kinda shit and since..
its not easy to get taper in crabs
(The goal, since it is most impressive then yes?)
What are we developing trunks for?
A big taperless trunk can be had free on Craigslist, even if it takes you ten years to find....are you not way ahead of the same game?

So since Crabs are nice in small sizes and you have THAT here...2-6 of them in fact...

Why not use this Material for what it is perfectly suitable for right now?

Each of those tops is a fine Shohin start on their own.
That difficult taper is built in, close branching....nothing uninteresting....

If you begin taking these....2018-03-28-08-47-27.jpg

From the bottom up specifically in this instance...(because you want to develop the trunks, I would take them from the top down as I am more concerned with those much better starts you can control.)

You are setting yourself up for the most quick success.

It will trigger budding on the trunk you wish to develop so they will actually develop And give you options.

You get 6-8 trees you are in full control of that have bright futures....

And as long as you keep your eye open for big trunks this goal can also be obtained in as little as one phone call.

And.....
the tree has already expelled the energy.
While this is true and applicable to a tree that does not go on to produce a fruit, it only serves to confuse here where going on to produce a fruit will use more energy and these flowers likely should be removed anyway as the energy to produce the flowers is not the only thing we are concerned with.

Something about how difficult it is to remember we are not taking steps just to take steps....
We have to remember all the tools that are at our disposable.
We have to know what a Bonsai is.
We have to utilize knowledge of all these tools to come up with a solid plan to make the Bonsai.

It seems we are now "following rules"...
But to no end.

START AT THE END.
The Bonsai. As described by the rules.

The best one is that Shohin on the left. After the transition is cleaned up a bit.
That's the fastest dope tree....

The rest should be relegated to the ...
"If I find something better later this is getting schtack ranked"....pile.
We do a lot of lying to ourselves about how addicted we are to this....knowing we are never going to be able to stop looking for better material is one of the keys in using what we have now to its best end.

Some people have an actual budget to purchase specific things too....not like me waiting on free!

Karma tapped my shoulder this morning when Darlene accidentally PM'd me about info on work done coming with trees at purchase.
I always felt it would be valuable to have the Future Vision plan of the person who was growing it. Since keeping trees on specific paths is usially the fasteat way to the best tree.

This has been rearing its ugly head a lot lately...instances where folks are cutting off what I see to have been awesome intended paths...from Adairs Gremel UME. To newbs with tridents...

I imagine having a simple note with a tree that says, "on its way to ____" would be most valuable.

I understand ....an artist wants to do it his own way....
But the Bones...the time...the fact we will never get enough...
If an artist wants to make x style, stating with material known and built to go into x style is merely being armed with information to best execute your art .

Everyone is capable of completely redirecting a trees path....but if feller x has tree a and feller y has tree b...and they are both perfect for each others intended path..
Not trading them CAN lead to this scenario where both trees take 20 extra years just cuz each made a foolish choice to completely redirect them, rather than trade for appropriate starting material for the intended path...

Then NONE OF US GET TO ENJOY THEM FOR 20 UNECCESARY YEARS.

BOO.

We can better move forward by working together.

IMO

Sorce
 

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