Extended season starting trees indoors

[AlainK]

Wow!

I'm impressed by your technique of Zelkova cuttings, really.

But starting Acer (or any other species that needs a period of dormancy) in September/October, that's another story : I've never seen that before.

I don't think it can be done over the ye

 

[cmeg1]

Wow!

I'm impressed by your technique of Zelkova cuttings, really.

But starting Acer (or any other species that needs a period of dormancy) in September/October, that's another story : I've never seen that before.

I don't think it can be done over the ye

Thanks,AlainK!
My first time trying this.My concept is that the trees Hardiness zones are zone5-9,that is first and last frost growing season March1st all the way till’ December 15th in zone 9.
That is a 9 month growing season!
Yup...I am giving a 15 month first growing season lol.
Also read a great article from the USDA and they are currently starting forestry species for their reforestation efforts a whole 5 months early under lights in greenhouses and they report much better survival rates and mass.

The JBP responded well.I definately provide Winter dormancy thereafter.
It is so handy to have a mature seedling to plant out into growbeds at start of Spring.
We’ll see how it goes.The main confidence I had was from the USDA article.Darn if I can find the article though.

 

[AlainK]

Also read a great article from the USDA and they are currently starting forestry species for their reforestation efforts a whole 5 months early under lights in greenhouses and they report much better survival rates and mass.

The JBP responded well.I definately provide Winter dormancy thereafter.

Cool. I had a vague idea it was that kind of scheme, the USDA source leaves no doubt. They're civil servants, technicians and scientists. Only fools would ignore their advice.

 

[cmeg1]

Fast growth

I have deduced that these really develop quickly with co2 fertilization!
I only potted this seedling 5 weeks ago.
Here is when I potted it and then the three pictures a week apart!

it has been in co2 for only 3 weeks.I keep it 1200 ppm.

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks,AlainK!
My first time trying this.My concept is that the trees Hardiness zones are zone5-9,that is first and last frost growing season March1st all the way till’ December 15th in zone 9.
That is a 9 month growing season!
Yup...I am giving a 15 month first growing season lol.
Also read a great article from the USDA and they are currently starting forestry species for their reforestation efforts a whole 5 months early under lights in greenhouses and they report much better survival rates and mass.

The JBP responded well.I definately provide Winter dormancy thereafter.
It is so handy to have a mature seedling to plant out into growbeds at start of Spring.
We’ll see how it goes.The main confidence I had was from the USDA article.Darn if I can find the article though.

I have started all my seedlings early and. Skipped dormancy the first year with stronger results. Started this practice in 2008 and would not switch back to the old system. Not aware of the studies you mention, just received advice from my sensei, that skipping dormancy with young stock was not an issue in his experience. From his point of view it does weaken older trees over a period of time. With health effects being obvious within three years as growing patterns fall off!

 

[River's Edge]

Fast growth

I have deduced that these really develop quickly with co2 fertilization!
I only potted this seedling 5 weeks ago.
Here is when I potted it and then the three pictures a week apart!

it has been in co2 for only 3 weeks.I keep it 1200 ppm.
View attachment 269548View attachment 269549View attachment 269550View attachment 269551

It's neat that you are experimenting with differrent variables! Lots of work documenting. Thanks for posting!

 

[cmeg1]

Seedling cuttings are starting to green up

I start these on a starter formula with added mono-ammonium phosphate to build roots first for a month.
After the 3 week mark they start to push needles and get greener.
I will bump the nitrogen and eliminate the phospherous add-on this week.
They should really take off like the test seedling in post above.

these will be bushes some of them!
The Blue spectrum enhanced lights shorten the plants,but I like that!
Vigorous low buds and needles.

 

[River's Edge]

Seedling cuttings are starting to green up

I start these on a starter formula with added mono-ammonium phosphate to build roots first for a month.
After the 3 week mark they start to push needles and get greener.
I will bump the nitrogen and eliminate the phospherous add-on this week.
They should really take off like the test seedling in post above.

these will be bushes some of them!
The Blue spectrum enhanced lights shorten the plants,but I like that!
Vigorous low buds and needles.

It will be interesting to catalogue the growth pattern changes when they are out in the real world. One question i might pose is, will the unusual growth characteristics at this point affect the expected normal growth patterns later?

 

[cmeg1]

It will be interesting to catalogue the growth pattern changes when they are out in the real world. One question i might pose is, will the unusual growth characteristics at this point affect the expected normal growth patterns later?

Thanks! I am sure I will have some out on the tables,but these are mainly being grown to be sold in Spring.I can ship legally if you know anyone interested.5 or 10 packs or something.I hope to have many.
As far as the growth shape and size,I think they are neat when they are stocky and dense standard Japanese Black Pine.I actually consider the ones that branch right at root level to be candidates for multi trunk or repeated sacrificial branch removal from the very base to make big bases or nebari clump style Pine.I’ve seen monster bases somewhere by removing large sacrificial branches from the ‘clump’.

It is my understanding that co2 enriched plants will easily revert back to ambient levels when put outside

 

[cmeg1]

Green ? Japanese Maple

I believe this is happening because Japanese Maple have a lot of anthocyanins.
Something with the co2 fertilization I guess.I honestly thought they would be fried at that light.I get my PPFD moniter this week.
Oh well,I do believe FW Schumacher gave me the right seed.The USA small seed that is used for grafting understock.
Some are on their 3rd node.I am just going to proceed and energize these for seedling layers.

 

[TyroTinker]

...but these are mainly being grown to be sold in Spring.I can ship legally if you know anyone interested.5 or 10 packs or something.I hope to have many...
It is my understanding that co2 enriched plants will easily revert back to ambient levels when put outside

I might be able to convince the wife to get a couple more... Do you plan on selling any of the deciduous ones?

 

[cmeg1]

Do you plan on selling any of the deciduous ones?

I guess I am growing a nursery from the ground up.Need to see how they turn out.Was planning on putting in ground this Spring and thicken at least a year before selling ( the deciduous ones).
Thanks!

 

[cmeg1]

Or if nice,they could be sold in Spring as interesting seedling layers. @TyroTinker

 

[cmeg1]

moved the propagation station

Too warm in the grow room for cuttings it seems with the additional lighting this time around ,so moved it to another room with a couple heat mats and a thermostat.Too warm would probably slow things down.Much better now.Plus I can do 24 hrs lights on for cuttings now and not worry about co2 turning on with the photo cell.I like 24 for more consistent everything with cuttings.

 

[cmeg1]

Moved propagation station yet again

Maybe it’s just the ferry Morse heat mats,but I could not get the domes above 74f.
So moved my commercial heat mat in from the grow room.Way better off that way.Don’t know what I was thinking today
It’s a very nice mat with quick heating and constant temperatures.

 

[cmeg1]

cuttings seem to be moving quickly
It’s been 7 days and they are callousing nicely.So I gave a ph’d foliar spray of fulvic acid w/ Kelp and Yucca powder as a surfactant.

 

[PABonsai]

I love this thread. I can't stop thinking about getting a pile of these come spring.

 

[cmeg1]

I love this thread. I can't stop thinking about getting a pile of these come spring.

Thanks,I will do my best to have many.I only pot the ones with full rooting.
Will definately ship.They will be bigger than expected,so will see on quantity per box.
Oh,I see your in York.Could easily stop by in Spring and forgo any shipping cost!
I hope to have 400 or so.

 

[cmeg1]

Zelkova 7 days after transplant

These seem ok after 7 days.I am still amazed at the texture of leaves,they seem high Brix with lots of chemical reactions going on there.
I am keeping these in lower light for Mother Plants to limit stretch and keep stout so the leaves make energy without expending it on growth.When I girdle these they should root very fast.
I get my PPFD meter on Wednesday so I can get more precise with lighting intensity.

More open space now since I moved the propagation station to another room!
I’m diggin’ It.

 

[Pitoon]

@cmeg1 man I wished you lived closer! We could chat all day about propagation, your propagation threads are always interesting. You got me wanting to buy more JBP seeds and go for another round indoors.

Where did you pick up your LED lighting?