Field growing question

[Graydon]

Daniel -

If you want to grow trees like stumps in squat pots (Growing Grounds) then go there and see what he does (if a trip like that is within your means). We can discuss this until we turn blue in the face but it will really kick in if you can go in person and spend much time discussing and observing how it is done. Get down on hands and knees and crawl about looking at the work in ground in various stages of progress.

Another forum member and myself did something similar with Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks a few years ago and I gotta tell you it was a learning experience. We did this after discussing stuff on forums ad nauseam. What it took was for Brent to let us root prune a decent caliper tree and actually put it in the ground. To make sure we got it we repeated the action 100 times or so. It's pretty clear in my head now - at least Brent's style.

Attached is a sample or two.

 

[Smoke]

There are also many trees that don't need to be grown in the ground to grow large. I have doubled the size of a two inch trident maple to 4/5 inches across in 5 years in a cut down five gallon can.

You can grow large stuff in boxes or cans and keep a root mass in check. Long growth can also be achieved that way. I can let tridents grow 9 feet tall in a can just like in the ground in one season.

This can be done with elms, zelcova, hornbeam, pyracantha, crab apples, olives and pomegranate. Probably many more also.

 

[daniel]

Thanks for the tip, Graydon. Unfortunately, not a possibility due to health concerns and distances. There's nothing much around here for doing something like that (KY).

Smoke, that's what I'm trying with two CBEs and a trident. We shall see what happens. Stay tuned.

I also picked up some nice azaleas and yews that were being trashed yesterday. Nice 2" trunks on the azaleas (scarred from previous tears, etc.) and the yews were 3-4". They were the best kind--free! I'll post some pics later, hopefully. (Give me a break--I have an 8 month old!)

Daniel

 

[Smoke]

Thanks for the tip, Graydon. Unfortunately, not a possibility due to health concerns and distances. There's nothing much around here for doing something like that (KY).

Smoke, that's what I'm trying with two CBEs and a trident. We shall see what happens. Stay tuned.

I also picked up some nice azaleas and yews that were being trashed yesterday. Nice 2" trunks on the azaleas (scarred from previous tears, etc.) and the yews were 3-4". They were the best kind--free! I'll post some pics later, hopefully. (Give me a break--I have an 8 month old!)

Daniel

Your in big bonsai trouble with an 8 month old. You will get to "really bonsai" in about 21 years!

 

[daniel]

Your in big bonsai trouble with an 8 month old. You will get to "really bonsai" in about 21 years!

Heh heh heh...yeah, that's what I was afraid of! But, I'm going to try like mad too, in spite of his best efforts!

 

[milehigh_7]

Your in big bonsai trouble with an 8 month old. You will get to "really bonsai" in about 21 years!

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[Alain BERTRAND]

I have a few dozens tree in the ground, some of them starting to be interesting.
To me, for most deciduous the most important is the movement at the bottom of the tree and it is decided quite soon. Then, you have the base, put the tree through a tile to have it air layer itself in the ground and get a large base is quite effective but you'll have to air-layer it again to get real nebari.

For pines and tree that are difficult to air-layer, you'll have to dig it every two-three year (three years is to much for deciduous according to my experience) to have not to bad nebari, but I feel it doesn't work as well as putting the tree in a huge pot or grow box.

 

[Daysleeper]

Have you thought about container growing? http://www.rgbonsai.com/amurearly.htm

 

[daniel]

Have you thought about container growing? http://www.rgbonsai.com/amurearly.htm

Yes, after reading that article, along with others by the gentleman from Evergreen Gardenworks, I've decided to go the container way. Right now, I have two large corkbark elms (~3" trunks), a trident maple (~2" trunk), and a european beech (1.5" trunk) that I'm going to try this with. I'll keep everyone updated as to progress. The elms will possibly be potted next year, the maple in two-three years and the beech in probably 3-5 years.

One question I had going the container way is what about the possibility of becoming root bound? I understand the "escape method," but should this be a consideration? My thought is no because it will be root bound to one extent or another when it get potted, right?

Daniel

 

[PaulH]

Your in big bonsai trouble with an 8 month old. You will get to "really bonsai" in about 21 years!

The story of my life. I sold all of my trees about fifteen years ago to devote all of my free time to daddying my three kids. Now they're grown up (mostly) and the bonsai fun has begun again.

Paul

 

[daniel]

The story of my life. I sold all of my trees about fifteen years ago to devote all of my free time to daddying my three kids. Now they're grown up (mostly) and the bonsai fun has begun again.

It's interesting, because this is almost exactly what happened to me several years ago. I've had two brain surgeries, the second of which was a year ago. But, I started to get sick two years before that, a little after I started "collecting" small trees and shrubs for bonsai. Well, now that I'm feeling at least a little better, my trees are (for the most part) grown up and I have the time and energy to work on 'em. Funny how life works like that sometimes.

Daniel

 

[Asus101]

Daniel -

If you want to grow trees like stumps in squat pots (Growing Grounds) then go there and see what he does (if a trip like that is within your means). We can discuss this until we turn blue in the face but it will really kick in if you can go in person and spend much time discussing and observing how it is done. Get down on hands and knees and crawl about looking at the work in ground in various stages of progress.

I can not get to such place to see the techniques applied. Please give us some more information.

 

[Taiko-Earth]

Great thread here guys-

Though I am no stranger to field growing (a small number, not 100+!), I was wondering more about Tridents.

Smoke (Al), I have dug up a couple of tridents after field growing and now there is a lot of top growth, even having a few double branches sprout out. Should I cut these off to one this early or wait until the fall? BTW these double branches are not located on the new leader.

Next question concerns the fast top growth. Since I potted up my stump in a decent sized azalea pot after trimming up the root ball quite a bit, I was suprised to see so much top growth so soon! It is a good thing I guess, but it is all growing up not out. I am afraid to guy wire because the growth is still too soft. So should I wait until the fall to do this when the tree has hardened a bit?

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Graydon]

I can not get to such place to see the techniques applied. Please give us some more information.

It's kind of hard to give more information in general. So much was seen and done it would be a huge discussion rambling all over the place.

Take a moment and go to Brent's site and read some of his articles. No doubt he has some of the best writings on growing stumps out for bonsai. Come up with some questions and points of discussion and start a new thread if you would like. I am sure some people with good information that lurk here or visit once and a while will add to the thread. Of course you will also get the regular's dribble on the subject.

 

[TheSteve]

I am sure some people with good information that lurk here or visit once and a while will add to the thread. Of course you will also get the regular's dribble on the subject.

Well that didn't sound too complimentry.

 

[Graydon]

Well that didn't sound too complimentry.

Wasn't meant to sound complimentary, was meant to sound honest. I'm not trying to sound bad, I actually want to help if I can but as soon as I spend an hour digging out photos from a hard drive and downsizing them to attach and writing what I can write I have confidence that it will turn into a typical mess that we see here. It's a shame but sure as the sun will rise it will happen. Sorry.

Asus101 - send me a PM with an email address. I'll post an photo album to a site and send you a link with a password. I will gladly discuss via email what I can.

 

[Vic N]

I have a few dozens tree in the ground, some of them starting to be interesting.
To me, for most deciduous the most important is the movement at the bottom of the tree and it is decided quite soon. Then, you have the base, put the tree through a tile to have it air layer itself in the ground and get a large base is quite effective but you'll have to air-layer it again to get real nebari.
For pines and tree that are difficult to air-layer, you'll have to dig it every two-three year (three years is to much for deciduous according to my experience) to have not to bad nebari, but I feel it doesn't work as well as putting the tree in a huge pot or grow box.

Alain-
Why the second layer? I thought the tile would create the large base and the nebari if left alone long enough. Vic

 

[daniel]

Asus101 - send me a PM with an email address. I'll post an photo album to a site and send you a link with a password. I will gladly discuss via email what I can.

Thanks for the offer, Graydon. Especially since I originally asked the question...

 

[Graydon]

Thanks for the offer, Graydon. Especially since I originally asked the question...

Well send me a PM and you can have it as well! Sorry I forgot to include you. Or anyone else. Please note it's going to be a week or so as I am a bit busy and my afternon computer time is gone.

 

[Alain BERTRAND]

Alain-
Why the second layer? I thought the tile would create the large base and the nebari if left alone long enough. Vic

Well, maybe I didn't check the roots soon enough but on most of my trees either one root became far bigger than the others or they grew too fast and look like pipes or both. See the pic. Sometimes, it works, I have a JPB whose nebari seems pretty correct only with the tile method.